.30-30 Ackley Improved

madtrapper143

madtrapper143

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Gentlemen: I have recently purchased a Savage 340 bolt rifle in .30-30 Winchester. I am considering having it reamed to .30-30 Ackley Improved. I am having trouble finding some loading info specifically for the bolt action using spitzer type bullets. Any ideas, opinions or suggestions about this wildcat and loads for it would be appreciated.

thanks Darryl
 
Darryl,
I was thinking about this too. I have two .30-30s a Marlin 336 and a Savage 340 and looking at the ballistics of the .30-30 improved makes me think it's worth it and I might buy a reamer. But, look at the mag of the 340 and how closely it follows the shape of the .30-30 standard case. I am thinking it will not feel without some serious modification if improved. Just slip some rounds in the mag and watch as you strip them off with your fingers. Those lugs on the inside of the mag will have to go and they seem to guide the round to the chamber.
Please let me know how you make out.
Rob
 
savage 340 22" brl.........3x9 Bushnell

Have a 340 savage in 30/30 win........non A. I.

110 gr speer spz........40.0 gr H335.....2654...2649...2663 fps...... 0.80 inch
3 shots 100 yds...clip fed

110 sierra spz....38.0 gr H335......2523,2579,2570..fps....0.75 inch
3 shots/100 yds.....clip fed

110 sierra.....40.0 gr H335...2621,2609,2594...fps... 0.90 inch
3shots/100 yds.....clip fed

125 gr Bal. tip........40.0 gr H335.......2633...2648..2636 fps
3 shots / 100 yds. 1.10 inch........single loaded

150 gr Hornady B T Spitzer....35.0 gr. Imr 3031......2519, 2512,2533 fps
3 shots /100yds....1.00 inch..........single loaded.
*************************************************

150 grain Speer Spitzer...flat base.....lead tip clipped off....(seated to cycle through 94 winchester too)...in 340 Savage ..clip fed. 39.0 gr H335..2478, 2488,2467 fps.
3 shots /100 yds 1.10 inch....

As Above Speer 150 gr 40.0 gr H335....2504, 2512,2498 f.p.s.
3 shots/100 yds...1.25 inch
****************************************

This 150 Speer load in 94 winchester..one in and one in magazine only....3 shot avg 2466 fps ...1.80 inch/100yds.....(scoped)

Not an A.I.........but....would try spitzers in your rifle before you have it reamed .... have not seen any A. I. data that puts 150 grains much over 2500 fps unless you have a loooong barrel...these loads are max in my gun and may be over max in yours......

Hope this helps out for spitzer data..........

hs4570.........your mileage may vary
 
I have seen data from a few sources that put 150s at 2700 fps in normal barrels from the .30-30AI. I don't know the pressure limit on a 340 though. The rifles used were 336 Marlins and Win94s.
Certainly worth trying the spitzer loads in the Savage first with the standard chamber. What the AI does changes this cartridge entirely. It's more like a .308 Win.
 
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We have a Savage 340 and a Stevens 325 that we have run spitzer bullets in for years. Some pointed bullets work, some are just to long in the nose. I found the Winchester pointed soft point power point, to be one of the best. For my type of hunting I have seen no need to push the velosity much. I run the 150's at just over 2400 fps, and the 125's at about 2600, with no preasure signs, and good brass life.
 
madtrapper143 said:
Sounds like I may not have to ream it to get some pretty decent performance. I will continue to ponder this.....
Click to expand...
Talk to WhyNot? He had one, or two. :)

Nuther thing to think about ........ Dies aren't cheeep! :(



.
 
Unless you just must have a 30-30 AI, there are much less expensive ways to get 303 Brit performance out of a gun (like buying a 303 Brit). You are considering taking your existing gun, spending $100 or so to get it reamed, then spending another $100+ for dies, to get perhaps another 150 fps out of it and in all likelihood reduce its value - fact is non-standard calibers don't sell well.

You'd be better off financially to sell the 340 and use the proceeds towards another gun in say 308. Of course just wanting a 30-30 AI is a good enough reason all by itself, as long as the financial aspect is understood.
 
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Hey Darryl, I might be able to help you out a bit. A couple of years ago a guy at the range let me try a couple of pokes out of his H and R single shot 30-30 AI. I guess I seemed a little interested or something and he said to keep a piece of brass-pretty sure I still have it.

If you like I could send you the empty cartridge. Would help to determine how well it might feed in your Savage. shoot me a pm if you want it :cool:
 
A .30 short neck sizing die should work fine here.
There is no way it makes sense financially of course. But, it sure is interesting. Imps and wildcats just have a special feel to them. They are very interesting just to see what can be done above the average round for the little guns.
If Darryl doesn't take that .30-30 AI case to test in the 340 magazine Salty, I would like to test it out.
It would be nice to hear from Ted here, he has used these and is the one that came over and got me fired up on the idea in the first place.
 
Savage 340 in 30-30 Ackley

I have a Savage 340C in 30-30 AI. I have a factory magazine and two I bought from Western Gun Parts. The factory mag will not feed the AI rounds. The mags from Western Gun Parts feed the AI rounds without any problems. The overal length of the rounds is very important for smooth feeding. Some pointed bullets have to be seated very deeply in the shell to work.
 
Casull said:
I have seen data from a few sources that put 150s at 2700 fps in normal barrels from the .30-30AI. I don't know the pressure limit on a 340 though. The rifles used were 336 Marlins and Win94s.
Certainly worth trying the spitzer loads in the Savage first with the standard chamber. What the AI does changes this cartridge entirely. It's more like a .308 Win.
Click to expand...

Ackley's load data was developed in a custom '98 mauser.

search through the leverguns forums at:

http://shootersforum.com/
http://www.marlinowners.com/

There is a lot of data on .30-30 Ackley Imp and longer than 20" barrel .30-30s.
 
Sure there is a lot of data with longer barrels. But it doesn't make as much sense in a longer barreled 98 custom. There you might as well go to a .308 or whatever.
It makes more sense to use the standard barrel lengths and traditional .30-30 guns. The improvement in these guns makes it interesting. In a long 98, it's just another round.
There is lots more data than Ackley's. More practical data made up by guys using improved Marlins and Win94s.
The round is and was pretty common among trappers in the north that wanted to improve their carbines. Long guns were not practical for them. This is where we see the following of this conversion in my area at least. We have a local smith that did many for the trappers and they loved it. It gave them a practical improvement with their existing carbines.
 
I agree that an M.98 is the wrong action for the cartridge, what I was saying is that the data in Ackley's book was developed in one.

it is important not to take for granted that a 150gr .30-30 Ack Inp is 2700fps capable out of a potentially weaker action.

Most of the data I've seen suggests that you can safely run a 150gr to about 2550fps MAX. in a .30-30 Ack Imp.

All I've done with a .30-30 Ack Inp. is to fire-form some cases for future developement.

I bought dies direct from LEE Precision for less than it would have cost me to buy a similar set of .308 dies here.

I used .308 dies as "necksize" loading dies when I built my fireform loads.
 
I have seen guys claiming to get 2700 with 150s out of Marlin 336s and Win94s. Now, I haven't done it myself so I can't say much for certain. I do intend to try it though and will get back to you.
I agree, don't push pressure to make the numbers. But if it goes there with acceptable pressure it would be a very worthwhile project.
As I mentioned there is a very knowledgable old gunsmith here in town that did a lot of them for local trappers and they he claims velocities were right there with the .308 Win.
I think a lot of trouble with these older projects we read on is that they were never actually chronographed. They estimated velocities and usually over estimated.
And as you say, the Ackley tests were in rifle never really suitable to these rounds. It's like making up a wildcat in a test or pressure gun with a 34" barrel and enormous action. It will all work, but it's not practical in a small hunting carbine.
I really am interested in this round and to some degree the Leverpower family of cartridges. I will test them out to see what they really give in my guns.
 
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