30/30 bullets sinking down

[John Y Cannuck]

I have never seen the need to take a gun, such as a Model 94 Winchester, apart to clean. I have heard too many stories about gunsmiths getting a box of pieces to put back together. I have assisted a gunsmith putting together a 94, in a case of where four hands are better than two, and was glad I was not on my own! By the way, a pre 64 is trickier than a post 64.
Browning didn't want the owners taking apart their FN shotguns, so they used very small screws, hard to get out, in an attempt to discourage the home "craftsman."
I think I have the absolute perfect example of why it is not necessary to take a rifle apart for cleaning. I bought a 1894 30 WCF, which was made in 1908 and purchased new by a rancher. The rifle stayed in the hands of the family of ranchers until I bought it last fall, from the last of the ranching family. That 30-30 had spent all but the last twenty years of its life as a working rifle with cowboys on horses on BC ranches. I got with it a very well use leather scabbard.
The rifle shows lots of use, has little, if any bluing left, the stock is well scuffed but not gouged and there is no rust on the rifle. The bore would rate between good and very good.
And here is the kicker. Every screw that Winchester put in the rifle is still there and not one single screw shows any indication, whatsoever, that it has ever been out of the rifle!
The action worked nice, so I took it to the range to shoot. It also shot fine and cycled well. I later squirted solvent into the action and blew it out with an airgun and oiled it. But no, it has still never had a screw out of it and it is just as smooth, easy working action as any 94 I have used.
So if it could spend about 80 years as a working ranch rifle without cleaning, don't tell me your rifle has to be taken apart to clean after a fall of hunting use!

Actually, last year at the moose camp i took apart a friends 1894 for the first time "ever" It had got so tight it was hard to work the action. It still did work, and shot fine, just stiff. Hunting camp tools being what they are, the disassembly did not include the bolt, however, the action was stripped, as well as the tube mag. I think the improvement was well worth the effort. The old 94's are very smooth rifles.
Me, I've had my rifle apart many times, and probably could do it blindfolded. However, for a person who is not given to mechanical things,the action can prove challenging. It's no where near the 88 Winchester, or even the '86, for complexity, but it can give a neophyte a headache.

I scraped probably close to a teaspoon of clay like material from his old gun much of it from the bolt slides, but also from the walls of the receiver, the magazine plug and all those tight little crevices that hold gunk. The hammer and trigger mechanism were a wonder. (wonder they worked that is) It was his great grandfathers rifle. Not a mark on the screws. (still isn't)

 

[SHELL SHUCKER]

I have never seen the need to take a gun, such as a Model 94 Winchester, apart to clean. I have heard too many stories about gunsmiths getting a box of pieces to put back together. I have assisted a gunsmith putting together a 94, in a case of where four hands are better than two, and was glad I was not on my own! By the way, a pre 64 is trickier than a post 64.
Browning didn't want the owners taking apart their FN shotguns, so they used very small screws, hard to get out, in an attempt to discourage the home "craftsman."
I think I have the absolute perfect example of why it is not necessary to take a rifle apart for cleaning. I bought a 1894 30 WCF, which was made in 1908 and purchased new by a rancher. The rifle stayed in the hands of the family of ranchers until I bought it last fall, from the last of the ranching family. That 30-30 had spent all but the last twenty years of its life as a working rifle with cowboys on horses on BC ranches. I got with it a very well use leather scabbard.
The rifle shows lots of use, has little, if any bluing left, the stock is well scuffed but not gouged and there is no rust on the rifle. The bore would rate between good and very good.
And here is the kicker. Every screw that Winchester put in the rifle is still there and not one single screw shows any indication, whatsoever, that it has ever been out of the rifle!
The action worked nice, so I took it to the range to shoot. It also shot fine and cycled well. I later squirted solvent into the action and blew it out with an airgun and oiled it. But no, it has still never had a screw out of it and it is just as smooth, easy working action as any 94 I have used.
So if it could spend about 80 years as a working ranch rifle without cleaning, don't tell me your rifle has to be taken apart to clean after a fall of hunting use!

My old rifle instructors back in my Reserves days woulda "be-hotch slapped" ya fer them statements.

I do see what you mean though as far gettin' long term use from a gun whilst giving 'er minimum maintenance, and have seen it far too often for my liking. Neat old arms deserve preservation and/or reconditioning to let others enjoy them further down the road. That said, arms are tools in one sense, precision instruments or works of art in others.

Ever since I fixed up my old Daisy BB gun when I was 13, I learned that a clean, properly lubed and cared for
arm will last not just years, but lifetimes. Never had issues with pulling down, cleaning & tweaking any of
my lever guns or other arms I've owned. Kinda anal about that.

 

[H4831]

OK, don't go over board, you guys. I was merely pointing out the good quality built into those old Winchesters that this 30-30 could spend about a hundred years of tough service, apparently without ever being taken apart, and still be in first class working condition.
I did not say anything about it not being oiled nor looked after. Of course it had been kept oiled and dried out after being soaking wet many, many times, or it would have been a heap of rusted junk.
It is just not necessary to take a rifle all apart to oil it.
And as far as one of you intimating that I have no mechanical ability, and afraid to take a rifle apart, I would just point out that while I was still a teenager I took engines, light truck and caterpillar type tractors, completely apart for repairing them. Pistons, rods, bearings, etc. all over the shop and always got them back properly together. Much of my life has been associated with something mechanical, including aircraft.
I just see no point in taking a rifle apart, and risk losing a small spring or tiny pin, when it can so easily be cleaned with solvent and an air gun, then properly oiled.