30-30: Popping Primers - Factory Ammo

sobo4303

sobo4303

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I just bought a new 30-30 (Henry H009) and took it out to the range today with nothing but factory ammo. Curious thing however, about half of the ammo I used had primers which were popped. None were penetrated by the firing pin.

Used Winshester SuperX and Remington. I am intending to work up some loads, but never seen this before.

Any ideas?
 
A buddies 270 was doing the something similar with factory ammo. Took it to a local gunsmith and was told to use the lightest bullet possible. Something about the rifling believe it or not. He loaded up some of the lightest bullets he could find for it (I didn't think this would help in the least) and it fixed the problem. I don't fully understand what was going on, but I do know it worked. If you're shooting 170's, try a box of 150's and see if it improves.
 
Your "Henry" is a lever action, they can be notorious for to much head space and large chambers.

On the other hand, if your are going to reload anyway, don't full length resize your cases and they will be custom fit to your chamber.

If you don't want to go that route, take it back to where you bought it and ask for another one.
 
I headspaced the rifle using unfired case an plastigage. Tried and true method for me. The headspace is bang on at .063". No issues there. Not all fired cases exhibited this feature.
 
sobo4303 said:
I headspaced the rifle using unfired case an plastigage. Tried and true method for me. The headspace is bang on at .063". No issues there. Not all fired cases exhibited this feature.
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If it is popping primers, and not at the firing pin, with different types of factoryy ammo then there is something wrong with the gun. Take it back and get it fixed or get one that doesn't do this. A 30-30 with factory loads is a pretty anemic round to start with, having to download it even further to keep the pressure down makes no sense.
 
Take it back to the store where you bought it and show them the popped primers. You probably have a headspace problem and it needs to be addressed. Your gun needs to be fixed - get it back to the seller and have them look after waranty claim and repairs ASAP. The barrel will probably need to have the chamber recut or replaced.
 
sobo4303 said:
I headspaced the rifle using unfired case an plastigage. Tried and true method for me. The headspace is bang on at .063". No issues there. Not all fired cases exhibited this feature.
Click to expand...

.0063 would be acceptable but .063 is bordering on dangerous. If you really have .063 head space you have some serious issues there.
 
I wouldn't keep a new rifle that needed special ammo to prevent the primers from popping. You should be able to use any standard factory ammo in your rifle.
 
bearhunter said:
.0063 would be acceptable but .063 is bordering on dangerous. If you really have .063 head space you have some serious issues there.
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Dangerous? The spec is .063" to .070". These are rimmed cartridges. Plastigage is by no means scientific, but it will give me a the gap. The thing is that the primers are not punctured and most of the Winchester ammo shows cratering of all things. Not so much with the Remington ammo. I don't have any experience with rimmed cartridges (30-30 in this case). Not sure about the term dangerous though.
 
OK, if you say so. To me, 1/16 inch is an awful lot of space between the bolt face and the rear of the case.

I can see your figures being OK if you take the measurment to the inside of the rim where head space is supposed to be set from.

Mind you I may have mistaken what you meant and your taking a measurement of the rim thickness and adding it to the plastigage. If so, then by all means all should be well.

Primer cratering can occur with just about any manufacturers product. Usually only an indication of softer primers. As for some of the primers backing out. You shouldn't be getting more than a few thou at most, maybe 5-6??

If you're getting more than that, something is pretty springy or loose.
 
I wish he would have explained "popped" primers better, or better yet, post a picture.
In shooting lingo, popping primers means you have been out shooting.
Does he mean they are punctured, protruding, leaking, blown out of the case, or what?
With a rimmed cartridge, like his 30-30, headspace is controlled by the extractor and how far the cartridge is from the bolt face when it's in the loaded position. Chamber size, length has nothing to do with head space with a rimmed cartridge. (OK, don't bother stating you can fire form the case, blah, balh. That is not what we are talking about.)
 
H4831 said:
I wish he would have explained "popped" primers better, or better yet, post a picture.
In shooting lingo, popping primers means you have been out shooting.
Does he mean they are punctured, protruding, leaking, blown out of the case, or what?
With a rimmed cartridge, like his 30-30, headspace is controlled by the extractor and how far the cartridge is from the bolt face when it's in the loaded position. Chamber size, length has nothing to do with head space with a rimmed cartridge. (OK, don't bother stating you can fire form the case, blah, balh. That is not what we are talking about.)
Click to expand...

Thanks for explaining it better than I did Bruce.
 
The 30-30 headspaces on the rim, not the shoulder, so sometimes there is a bit of space. What I think you are seeing is that the cartridge is gripping the chamber walls, and the primer is being pushed out the back.
On a larger centerfire, the case would be stretched back and push the primer back in. This doesn't always happen with the 30-30.
Is it dangerous? Hard to say without an examination by a pro.
IMO, without an examination, no, it's not.
However, it's not right either, and I'm quite sure that Henry would not want one of their rifles acting this way.
Try contacting them and explain the issue.

ht tp://www.henryrepeating.com/contact-henry-arms.cfm
or take it back where you got it.
 
Pictures...I got. I took them today.

Cabelas005.jpg


Cabelas004.jpg


Cabelas003.jpg


Cabelas002.jpg


Cabelas001.jpg


Cabelas006.jpg


Went out to the range and shot some Fusion 150's. Nothing really noticeable in the primers. Could it be the brass itself? A deformation at the moment of impact by the firing pin?...I dunno..seems pretty weird. I contacted Henry and a Technician will be getting back to me tomorrow. Took these pictures for Cabelas, they too will be contacting me tomorrow. As to why the Fusions did not pop (protrude).

Notice in the pics some moved...and others did not. Like I said...never owned a 30-30, so I am quite a noob when it comes to these rimmed cases.
 
From your photos I would say that you have excessive and potentially dangerous headspace.


It seems odd that you would see that in a new firearm.:confused:

I had the same problem with an old 1954 Win 94 that backed out the primers of the fired cases.

In that instance I just swapped the bolt with one from a 1970's era Win 94 and the headspace improved dramatically.

Del Selin showed me a quick way to check the headspacing on a Win Model 94 by placing a piece of masking tape on the base of a cartridge. IIRC, if it closes on one piece you are OK, two you are pushing it, and three it is unsafe. You can phone him yourself and ask for proper clarification. (The thickness of the tape matters though, as he knows how thick his is.)

Mine went from easily closing on three pieces of tape to barely closing on two (with force applied) after the bolt swap.

On a side note, if various brands of ammo give different results it could just mean that the rim thickness is different on them.

In any case, those primers are backed out way too far in my opinion and I would definitely have the rifle replaced under warranty.

I doesn't look like it would be safe to shoot for very long.
 
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Measure the rims of the cases with popped primers. A low pressure load may produce that combined with small rim thickness, as the case won't stretch enough to be fireformed. Case rim should measure 0.063" Max / 0.053" Min.
If the rims are close to 0.063", bring the rifle back to the store where you bought it.
 
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