Yes it is common in cartridges that will be fired in rifles that may be in excess of 100 years old.
The backed out primers in the 30-30 is quite common as was mentioned due to low pressures.
30-30 popping primers
- Thread starter coyoteking
- Start date
Yes it is common in cartridges that will be fired in rifles that may be in excess of 100 years old.
The backed out primers in the 30-30 is quite common as was mentioned due to low pressures.
Handloads yes. Factory ammo still loaded +/- 35k for 30-30 and excessive headspace is more likely the problem here.
it being that old of a rifle has any body checked if the locking bolt has excessive wear ,sometimes through good intentions people use sand paper on them to shine them up .Close action and check if the blot will move forward
My M94 has minimal headspace. The bolt won't close on some cases.
From this I have learned that there is a range of rim thicknesses in brass. I don't know if it is by brand or just random.
OP, maybe the brass you have has thin rims? Try some other brass and see if headspace is still .075"
The fact that a part can be changed to tighten the bolt sounds like a good idea if it is not too expensive.
Mybe you and I should trade some brass? I need thin rims. I can give you my thick ones.
From this I have learned that there is a range of rim thicknesses in brass. I don't know if it is by brand or just random.
OP, maybe the brass you have has thin rims? Try some other brass and see if headspace is still .075"
The fact that a part can be changed to tighten the bolt sounds like a good idea if it is not too expensive.
Mybe you and I should trade some brass? I need thin rims. I can give you my thick ones.
Necro thread I need to read through.
Blew a primer on very low 30-30 loads (30gr/H335) with 150gr RN bullet. Primer gone and extractor mark. Rifle was a Henry H015. 1st time shooting it. 1st three were normal and then blew the last one.
Pulled bullets. All remaining charges were right. Brass was once fired. All same headstamp. WW
Blew a primer on very low 30-30 loads (30gr/H335) with 150gr RN bullet. Primer gone and extractor mark. Rifle was a Henry H015. 1st time shooting it. 1st three were normal and then blew the last one.
Pulled bullets. All remaining charges were right. Brass was once fired. All same headstamp. WW
Excellent tutorial. Mine measured 0.065" so headspace is not my problem.Measure the case rim thickness and the amount the primer is protruding and this will be your actual headspace.
The primers backing out is normal, the 30-30 max chamber pressure of 43,000 psi is not great enough to push the case back against the bolt face.
The primers on my Winchester 94 30-30 and my sons Marlin 30-30 back out all the time, and the amount they back out is your head clearance.headspace
Below depending on your rim thickness on average the primers can back out .007 to .009 maximum. If you have a vernier caliper you can measure your primer protrusion and rim thickness to get your rifles actual headspace reading.
With lower chamber pressure like starting at the suggested start load or reduced loads any cartridge will have backed out primers. And the amount the primer backs out is your head clearance. And with a resized case with .002 shoulder bump you would have approximately .002 head clearance.
Below is the cheap bastards headspace gauge with rimmed cartridges.
1. Take a new or full length resized case with the primer removed and measure from the case mouth to the base of the case and write it down.
2. Now take a fired spent primer and using your fingers just start the primer into the primer pocket.
3. Now chamber the case and slowly close the bolt and let the bolt face seat the primer.
4. Remove the case and measure again from the case mouth to the base of the "primer" and write it down.
5. Now subtract the first case measurement from the second and this is your head clearance and the amount the primer is protruding.
6 Now measure your rim thickness and add it to your head clearance and this in your rifles actual headspace. And the max field gauge 30-30 Win headspace is .070.
NOTE, if the rifle is over .070 you should get a gunsmith to set the barrel back to GO and NO-GO headspace limits to be safe.
Thank-you
30-30 factory ammo is not loaded conservatively it's loaded to industry spec
this clearly a headspace issue
fingers284
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- Alberta Cowboy Ranges
High pressure from "Detonation" could be your culprit in this case .
Ummm, OK, but it's the "locking blocks" in fully engaged position that will determing headspace. I'm guessing, from your post, that the trigger guard portion of the lever was bent? not allowing the blocks to fully engage?
To bad there isn't more detail on the fix.
bearhunter, while we're on it, in a old Marlin or Win , would the worn bolt be the culprit or can a worn lever also allow excessive headspace?
Can a lever be modified to take up space? realizing the Win has more linkage parts that can also be worn
Can a lever be modified to take up space? realizing the Win has more linkage parts that can also be worn
All of the above. Winchester quality control (wait for the flack) changed throughout the years as technology advanced.
When the firearms were built, fit/finish standards were usually excellent, but heat treating was another story.
It depended on "lighting" and the experience of the individual doing the heat treating of materials.
They did the best with what was available during each period.
Your query is very broad, and without having hands/eyes on, impossible to answer definitively.
adamthebad
Regular
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- .here and .there
METALLURGY has to be looked here if your dates are correct and not a replica stamp or such.
If in fact they are 1895 and 1946....two different eras of powder and reality to think
AND
You really have to think about it.
1895 black powder cartridge
1946 more modern smokeless powder
My bet is when the barrel was updated the action was not, and CANNOT ever be possible!
Winchester caught in a massive metallurgy trap trying to figure out how to stop smokeless powder from destroying their guns.
now add the newer barrel.
1895-96
When the .30 WCF (.30-30) was launched in late 1895, it utilized a very early, primitive form of bulk smokeless powder. Because Winchester was transitioning away from black powder actions, these first-generation smokeless loads were intentionally kept exceptionally mild—cruising at roughly 30000 to 32000 PSI.
The pressure curve of early powder peaked instantly right at the chamber and dropped off rapidly. The soft forged steel of the early 1894/1895 receiver frame could comfortably absorb that brief, light tap without shifting.
Along comes 1946 and adding 33 to 40%.
By 1946 and into modern SAAMI standards, ammunition manufacturers perfected modern progressive slow burning powders. Today's standard factory rounds push right up to the maximum allowable limitoff 42000 psi ±.
Progressive powders don't just peak and vanish; they hold that high pressure much longer as the heavy 170-grain jacketed bullet travels down the barrel,
hence, a massive increase in sustained rearward thrust against the bolt face of 130 year old softer steel.
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I don't think 30.0gr of H335 is a particularly light load for a 30-30. I don't see how it would be detonation. Maybe an accidentally overcharged case or a bullet pushed back deep into the case on recoil? If it has enough excess headpace it might have blown the primer due to no support from the case around a backed out primer.
I shoot a 30-30 but in a Winchester 1885 single shot, with H335. I use 168 Amax bullets and H335 ( 31.1gr). I use fireformed cases and a Lee collet die so it ends up headspacing on the shoulder.
Chris.
I shoot a 30-30 but in a Winchester 1885 single shot, with H335. I use 168 Amax bullets and H335 ( 31.1gr). I use fireformed cases and a Lee collet die so it ends up headspacing on the shoulder.
Chris.
