30/30 vs 243 recoil

stovepipe699 said:
Thanks for the help everyone. I have a 94 Win 30/30 for her to use as one option, and I was thinking of a single shot to keep it simple. I'm a bolt action fan, so I'd love to set up a rifle with a smaller stock that could be swapped out in the future. Would a 7-08 with low recoil ammo be as mild as 243? I don't want to create a flinching problem, I have an issue that started years ago with a muzzle loader scope leaving a scar on my face, lol!
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I think of a single shot as more of an expert's gun than a novice's. I don't think that a manually operated repeater is any less safe than a single shot, but that said something like a Ruger #1 International would be as nice to carry as a lever action, and would last her for the rest of her life. The two piece stock of the #1 would allow butt stocks to be easily swapped out, but the stock could be trimmed, and then the piece that was cut off could be refitted at some time in the future. My wife's semi-custom Husky 1640 has a LOP of only 12" to facilitate shooting with a bulky parka on. Its easier to shoot well with a rifle that's a bit short, rather than too long, and I can shoot that rifle just fine with irons on it, but I wouldn't shoot it happily if it was scoped. My rifles are mostly trimmed to 13.5" LOPs. Don't cheap out on the recoil pad, even if you choose a .243.

The 7-08 is a mild recoiling cartridge, and with 140 gr bullets, at 2350, which is roughly what Remington's Managed Recoil loads are would be even more so. That should be an effective deer load out to 200 or so. According to the recoil calculator the Managed recoil load produces about 11 ft-lbs of recoil in a 7 pound rifle, and the .243 100 gr full powered load is about 11.3, so for all intents and purposes they're the same. I'd opt for the 7-08 myself, but it depends if she'll want to do with the rifle.
 
stovepipe699 said:
Thanks for the help everyone. I have a 94 Win 30/30 for her to use as one option, and I was thinking of a single shot to keep it simple. I'm a bolt action fan, so I'd love to set up a rifle with a smaller stock that could be swapped out in the future. Would a 7-08 with low recoil ammo be as mild as 243? I don't want to create a flinching problem, I have an issue that started years ago with a muzzle loader scope leaving a scar on my face, lol!
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Ear protection is as important as low recoil with new shooters...
 
stovepipe699 said:
Hello neighbour, it's a small world,lol!
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hey, how are ya? Small world indeed! I guess you know Bev, she's so sweet! And Rick at Instead Auto Body? I prolly saw you at the chilly cook off night! How did Gary make out with all them doggies he has/had? He's quite the song writer/singer/dancer:)! Met him a few years back while ice fishing on Gull Lake.
 
OP, my oldest Jr just said he might have a gem for your 12 yr old daughter. It's a downsized Savage Light Weight Hunter model 11 in 260 Rem with a nice soft recoil pad. He says the 260 is very similar to that of the 243 for recoil. He bought it new and has has only fired a few rounds. He's not a 100% sure yet, if he will sell it. If he can acquire his brother's Browning Stainless Stalker 260, then he will sell the mod 11. If you are interested we could met and let your daughter fire it, just to get an idea of what it's like. She could also fire Jr's Browning Micro Medallion 243, to get an idea of that one. I imagine you know where the pit at the end of 94 is? A good place to set up. Just let me know any time.

EDIT: Just got home from the small city, went to mail out 2 rifles that sold on the EE today, stopped in at CTA & Walmart to look for some 257 Roberts. Your daughter can try out my Micro Medallion in that cartridge, if she would like to do so. They didn't have any, but I have still some Hornady +P on hand, it would be a wee bit hotter than the reg stuff, but the Bob is in no way a tooth loosener! We have a trip to Cabelas planned very soon to get an Archery bow set up for my grand-daughter for Christmas. I'll get some reg 257 ammo on that trip.
 
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I dunno why guys have to complicate things with every other cartridge under the sun.

If I was you, I'd buy a .243, because it shoots flatter.

I had this same basic decision last spring. I wanted a deer rifle with minimal recoil, because in my experience, I shoot better with less kick. I really wanted a .243, but ended up with a bolt action .30-30, mainly because ammo was much cheaper and more widely available, and I wanted the heavier bullets. But in your case, you sound like you'd be happier with the .243.

I will say this: With a leather lace-on cheek pad to enable a better cheek weld, this CIL 830 (same as a Savage 340) .30-30 has minimal recoil, especially when compared to the old Winchester 94s with their straight stock. These guns are readily available in the $250 range, and another $50 in accessories would make it very kid-friendly. But with new .243s so affordable, might as well go that route.
 
I've got a lightweight TC Encore in 7mm-08 and find that the recoil with that setup is a touch stronger than a .30-30 from a Marlin 36. I mention the guns in this case since the relative weights do count.

For use in a slightly heavier bolt action rifle the 7mm-08 would likely be the same or even less recoil than the lever Marlin.

The one downside to the 7-08 is that you won't find ammo here there and everywhere. That didn't bother me since I was already into reloading and didn't have any trouble finding the dies, brass and bullets. And with reloading those reduced power loads for practicing and plinking are a cinch to make up.

I don't find that many kids have an issue with recoil. But the ones that do have one helluva time with adjusting to it. And if that's the case then the .243 might well be a better option. Last thing anyone wants is a flinch at the last instant and a wounded animal. Better to give him something he'll do well with and not have any bother with using.
 
I don't know why some folks whine & worry so much about ammo availability! Don't be a cheap azz and buy one box when ya see it on the shelf! You are far better off to buy a number of boxes with the "same lot number" on them! Your rifle will love you a little more if you do that! And you will love it a little more! Of coarse it all depends on how much you shoot, but for crying out loud, buy 5 or 6 boxes and go happy with no worries about running out of ammo any time soon! Oh boo-hoo-who to those dudes that go on a hunting trip into no man's land and forget their ammo at home! You do that and you deserve to sit in the camp and tidy up and cook the meals while the others go hunting!
 
stovepipe699 said:
Would a 7-08 with low recoil ammo be as mild as 243? I don't want to create a flinching problem
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I think I can provide information that is relevant to your question.

I once compared 2 Sako rifles at the range, both of similar weight:
- one in .243 without a recoil pad, shooting 100 gr. factory ammo, and
- the other in 7mm-08 with a recoil pad, shooting 150 gr. factory ammo
The result of the comparison: the felt/perceived recoil was identical and very low.

I am an old geezer with a number of sports injuries acquired when I was younger - one of which is a painful torn rotator cuff in my shooting shoulder.
Consequently, I am now recoil-sensitive and can flinch at the range with repeated firing of anything up to and over a .30-06 ..
and I cannot comfortably carry a medium-to-heavy weight rifle any significant distance.

I have bought/sold many different rifles chambered in a variety of calibres. Experience has led me to choose rifles that:
- get the job done on deer (let the younger/healthier hunters target bigger game)
- are light in weight to carry, and
- have a minimum of recoil.

Balancing the weight vs. the recoil is the trick.

Now I only own 2 rifles:
- both are lightweight Kimber's,
- both have 1-inch Pachmayr Decelerator recoil pads,
- one is in .243 , and the other in 7mm-08.
 
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I'd vote for the 243 WIN in a bolt rifle. Make sure the rifle isn't too light, as recoil goes up quite a bit with the lightweight rifles. Try to find one the Weatherby Vanguard youth models in 243, I've seen them on sale for about $450, which is a decent price for what you get. And you can always get a regular size stock later to fit bigger people.
 
I can't help you decide on a good starter rifle for Deer, but my daughter has the Savage Axis Muddy Girl .243Win, decently short, light and accurate with non punishing recoil at a good price. I also have a Marlin 336Y with the 16.25" barrel. It shoots great with Lever Evolution ammo, is short, fast handling with good recoil. Just two options for you between a .243 and .30-30. for a starter rifle.
The .250/3000 or the .257Roberts would make great low recoil rifles in lightweight carbines as well, but the old 30/30 and the 243 are cheaper to shoot and practice with factory ammo.
 
Seems like some think ammo availability is really important. Once a rifle is sighted a box of 20 should last about 5 years and that's with checking the sights each year. 243 7-08 and 3030 can typically all be found at Canadian Tire. Not a big deal for most people.
Btw i agree with the previous poster : let her try a few out then decide. The fact is an argument can be made for any of your choices.
 
For a young shooter with little experience I would pick the .243, hands down. A good performer on deer with very mild recoil in an eight pound rifle. I own a few 94's and love them but the standard 94 carbine in .30/30 is sharp in the recoil department and very loud causing recoil to seem worse to a novice. And IMO she will never "outgrow" the .243.
 
LarryG said:
Seems like some think ammo availability is really important. Once a rifle is sighted a box of 20 should last about 5 years and that's with checking the sights each year. 243 7-08 and 3030 can typically all be found at Canadian Tire. Not a big deal for most people.
Btw i agree with the previous poster : let her try a few out then decide. The fact is an argument can be made for any of your choices.
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Personally, I'd push for a rifle that she can shoot and become proficient with. I'm a bit leary of people who don't get out and do a decent bit of ' Pre-season ' target practice to re-establish familiarity with the rifle. Seems like often they are the ones who park one in the guts of an animal, or blow a leg off...then it gets nasty.
Just my opinion though
 
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I had a father in law who shot one deer in his whole life. He was a tiny man and his son in law had given him this 303 to hunt with that had a high scope mount and of course that brass butt plate. I tried to talk the family into getting him a rifle that fit him for years so the man could actually shoot something but to no avail. A rifle has to be made to shoot for the individual person or they will never be able to use it. 30-30s are great but for some people even they hammer your shoulder let alone a magnum rifle in a non fitting rifle. I have wanted a 243 for myself for years just never found one when I had the money to buy one.
 
My girlfriend is 5'5" 125lb she shoots a 243 easily and she is very recoil sensitive

She also shoots my 30-30 not bad.

Both will get the job done
 
two-dogs said:
I don't know why some folks whine & worry so much about ammo availability! Don't be a cheap azz and buy one box when ya see it on the shelf! You are far better off to buy a number of boxes with the "same lot number" on them! Your rifle will love you a little more if you do that! And you will love it a little more! Of coarse it all depends on how much you shoot, but for crying out loud, buy 5 or 6 boxes and go happy with no worries about running out of ammo any time soon! Oh boo-hoo-who to those dudes that go on a hunting trip into no man's land and forget their ammo at home! You do that and you deserve to sit in the camp and tidy up and cook the meals while the others go hunting!
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LOL you're right of course. My (WW2 veteran) dad had a box of 30-06 ammo and killed 18 big game animals with it. I think it was probably a 1903 Springfield with an 18 inch barrel he hacksawed down himself and he used a bent up hacksaw blade as a peep sight!

I'd say he got his money's worth out of that box of shells.
 
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