30-30 vs. 45/70

graham1

graham1

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I bought a 30-30 about a year ago. I got it thinking it would be a handy rifle around the farm and campsite. I have a 7mm for hunting but I thought the shorter range and open sights would be handy now and then. Anyway I had to put an 1800lb bull down the other day. The 30-30 didn't do nearly as well as I thought it would. My question is would the 45/70 do much better? I have never owned one and looking at ballistics the 30-30 looks faster and has more velocity. Would the much larger bullet of the 45/70 penetrate much farther in close? The bull was down and I was just out of kicking range. The vet was there to do a test on him and asked that I shoot him in the neck. Needless to say it was not the most humane death.
I wish I had used the 7mm but at that range all you see through the scope is hair. I will have to use it next time(hopefully there isn't a next time any time soon). However if the 45/70 would be that much better I would probably pick up a guide gun asap.

I appreciate the advice.
 
The neck on a bull is pretty big. A direct shot to the neck BONE will sever the spinal cord and death should be instant. Sounds to me (but I may be wrong) that you hit the meaty part and if that be the case, it would get messy.

A couple yrs ago I shot a moose at close range in the neck. POI was right behind the ear. Bang/flop!

.
 
The standard bullets used in a 30-30 are way too soft to get the penetration you would need on a mature bull's neck. A 45-70 launching a "tough" bullet would be a MUCH better choice although if you hand-load a hard-cast 30 calibre bullet may work.

BTW, Your 7 Mag probably would have come up short in the penetration department if you were shooting into a foot of tough bull hide and muscle from mere feet away.
 
I gave him 2 where the vet said, he had me go for the main artery, after that I gave him 3 more in the spine column. They were far more effective but I don't think they shattered anything like I had hoped. It got the job done but I would have thought with a 170grain bullet to the spine would have been pretty quick. Not needing 2 more.
Tough bastard!!
 
Your 30-30 is God's personal gift to hunters. There isnt a bull alive that can't be quickly dispatched with the ultimate cartridge.........

Right between the eyes or one behind the ear. Between the shoulderblades from behind is good too......
 
'Boo said:
You must have some awful short necked moose out there on the East coast ......... ;) LoL
Click to expand...

happy_moose.jpg
 
Sorry for being silly. I would think that a shot to the neck through the spinal cord or even the jugular would be a humane kill regardless of the choice between .30-30 or .45-70. The .45-70 would have greater penetration. Shot placement would be the most important factor.
 
Ear would have been better . Why in the neck vet have to check out his brain ?
A far as a humain death there is no such thing .

I worked for a guy that sold a steer to a retired butcher . My boss tried shooting it behind the ear with a 22 lr that just pissed him off , i should have thrown him in the pen . Anyhow after 10-15 lrs he got the 12 gau slugs out . And lucky me I got to dress that mess off with the butcher .
 
The 45\70 only comes into full power play when reloaded.
Because of too many older,weaker guns out there, factory loads are weak, but nonetheless, would have done a better job than a 30\30.

I've also heard a 12 ga slug between the eyes is a good choice.:shotgun:
 
Maybe try a Guide gun in 450 Marlin. That would be about as good as one could get next to a bolt gun in 338 or bigger.It will definately work better than a 30-30. I've seen big bulls shot before, penetration is key.
 
As the writer pointed out, most bulls, or general cattle, are shot with a 22 rim fire. However, the vet didn't want the brain damaged. I would think a 30-30 with 170 grain bullets would break the neck bone, but those old bulls have a mighty tough neck, pretty thick.
 
I'm going to disagree big time with the last post, although either cart. will do the job if the animal is hit right....back to the "superior ballistics of the .444"...In my testing, no .44 cal. bullet came even close to the heavy, long .45 cal. slugs....Bullets from the .45/70 weighing from 420 to 480grs. usually penetrated double and caused much more damage then the lighter .444s. The 480 gr. WFN at 1800-1900fps busted up our testing box pretty bad. I have mentioned something else in the past as well....even the soft cast 560gr. slugs at 1200 fps.(Buffalo loads) completely outclassed the .444 Marlin in damage testing.
 
The 22 rimfire, in a little Ruger semi auto was what one of our local butchers used until his retirement to put down all the animals he killed.
Bullet placement is key.
I put down a bull moose with one shot from a 30-30 170 grain, spine shot at 85 yards. 17" penetration. It has the power,
The 45-70 if you read factory ballistics doesn't appear like much of a cartridge. It's work in the field though is entirely a different matter. Handloaded, and with heavy cast bullets, it becomes a giant killer. One writer compared it's penetrating ability to shooting lengthways through a railway tie. A slight exageration.
 
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