30-30 Winchester Short Magnum

[Gatehouse]

I have been playing with a Remington Model 788 chambered in 30-30.

Since this is a detachable magazine fed bolt action, and not a tubular magazine, there was an opportunity to experiment with bullets a bit.

I wanted this rifle to fufill 2 roles: I wanted it to shoot a full power load capable of killing deer or bear out to about 200 yards, and I wanted it to be able to shoot subsonic cast bullet loads, as a quiet, low recoil pest eliminator/ fun plinker/grouse load.

I thought it would be intresting to try out a 130gr TSX bullet, and see what kind of velocities I could get. One problem- The bullet had to be seated fairly deeply to fit the magazine, so I ended up with a bullet point sticking out of the long neck of the 30-30, with the case mouth somewhat "open"

So I cut it back a fair bit, and created the 30-30 Winchester short magnum

Left to right we have 165gr cast bullet sub sonic, 150gr factory load, 130gr TSX 30-30 (you can see how the edges of the case mouth stick out around the bullet) and the 30-30 WSM, with 130gr TSX seated.


Doing a load work up I started with 34.5gr Varget, and worked up in .5 grain incremments to 37gr.

34.5, 35 and 35.5gr all went into 1.145"

When I swiched to 36gr all of a sudden the point of impact shifted dramatically.

36, 36.5 and 37 gr went into about 1.85"

I'm not sure what caused the dramatic shift. It's possible that like many older guns they shoot better at lower pressures.

I went to make up some more ammo, to shoot a few groups, then realized I had forgotten the shell holder!!

velocities went

2321
2391
2463
2494
2499
2529

I tried out the subsonic loads, and of curse the wind and snow increased....

The rifle is topped with a Burris 3-9 scope with a ballistic plex. At 100 yards, the subsonic loads drop pretty close to point of aim, using the bottom crosshair on the scope, when set to 3X.

These are probably better at closer to 50 yards, but I am sure they would take out a yote at 100 yards. Even better on grouse at 20!

This rifle should make a good truck gun, using one magazine loaded with 130gr TSX bullets at 2460fps for deer/bear out to about 200 yards, and grouse up close with the other magazine loaded with the subsonics.

 

[todbartell]

how about some penetration tests between a 130 gr TSX @ 2460 fps and a 180 gr soft point @ 2700 fps?

 

[Gatehouse]

It would be interesting to see...I don't own a 30-06 anymore, though

Also, i chronoed a factory round...Only one I had. 150gr at a shockingly low 2019fps

 

[leveractionjunkie]

Interesting work Gatehouse. I look forward to seeing some more accuracy results. That will definately make a great truck gun

 

[madtrapper143]

I tried alot of different spitzer .30WCF loads with my Stevens bolt .30WCF. All were OK but the Hornady Leverevolution 165 grain loads were the BEST. I couldn't load anything that would compare. This of course would only fill the high power deer load niche you have. I am going to cast some boolits and try the grouse load you have created. Great idea. Nice find on the .30-30 788 too! I thought of re boring to .30-30 Ack Imp but feeding and mag issues were predicted by other shooters so I declined.



cheers Darryl

 

[John Y Cannuck]

Nice shooting Clarke.
It's been many years since I played with single loading spitzers in my '94 Winchester. I do remember having great success with Sierra BTSP bullets though. I had a true 300 yd load. I'll see if I can find it.

 

[Republic of Alberta]

I used R7 with some 130g hornadys to break 2600 fps in a Handy Rifle SB2

I have also seen huge impact shifts between loads. One grain extra powder can print 5" higher some times.

 

[John Y Cannuck]

Try 32 grains of 4895 under Sierra BTSP I didn't have a chronograph at the time. It's not a very fast load. 3" high at 100 should put it about on the money at 200, and 12" low at 300.
My notes at the time were rather cryptic, so I can't say for sure if the powder was IMR, or Hogdon.
Being as I single loaded them in the '94, seating depth wasn't an issue for me, and the cartridge was quite long.

 

[snowshoe]

I did a lot of reloading for a few Savage 340's, and a single shot. H335 was the powder I used for 125g bullets, and it produced 2600 fps, and 1" groups. The bullet used was Remington 125g psp.

 

[Gatehouse]

I tried alot of different spitzer .30WCF loads with my Stevens bolt .30WCF. All were OK but the Hornady Leverevolution 165 grain loads were the BEST. I couldn't load anything that would compare. This of course would only fill the high power deer load niche you have. I am going to cast some boolits and try the grouse load you have created. Great idea. Nice find on the .30-30 788 too! I thought of re boring to .30-30 Ack Imp but feeding and mag issues were predicted by other shooters so I declined.



cheers Darryl

I didn't mention that I am using Trailboss powder for the subsonics. Probably the easiest way to get from A to B.

 

[snowshoe]

Keep working with it, and let us know how it goes. My wife still has a Savage 340 with open sights, and she is shooting Winchester 150g psp power points out of it, at a velosity of 2360 fps. I sold off the other .30-30's we had, mainly because I hated the side mount scope set up for the Savages. The set up you have looks great, and looks like a keeper.

 

[Gatehouse]

Grabbed the shell holder this morning and back to the range I went..

I made up 3 rounds of 35.5gr Varget, 130gr TSX and a Federal 210 lg rifle primer.

At 100 yards, this was the result.

I loaded up 3 more rounds, and figured I woudl shoot 2 of them at the same target, to see what a 5 shot group looked like.

The fourth shot went right into the other 3. Then I was lining up for the fifth and last shot when I felt the trigger should have broken, and it hadn't- and jerked it a little. It went off to the right, spoiling the group....

So I chambered the sixth round,and it went right back in the group.

Average velocity for the 6 shots was 2477fps

I also loaded up a few with higher powder charges- Got to 2560fps...But accuracy was erratic, and I didn't see any real benefit to the extra 90fps, so I didn't even bother to play around with it.

I fed all these test rounds from the magazine, and all fed reasonably well- Not nearly as smooth as my 300WSM, but just as good as any factory ammo I tried in this rifle.

So I think I am done with the 130gr TSX development, all I need to do now is trim down 50 cases, load them up and the 30-30 WSM is ready to hunt.

 

[p-17]

This is really interesting, and I can't wait to hear about your hunting results.

I am actually having my Parker-Hale sporterized Lee-Enfiled re-barrelled with a tight, new(ish) commercial .303 barrel. I figure it should be just the ticket for the new .303 TSX bullets (123 grain boattail [designed for the 7.63x39] and 150 grain flat base).

It should be no problem at all to crank the 123-grainer up to about 2,850 or 2,900 out of my Lithgow action. That should probably be effective on deer out to 300 yards, and it should recoil about like a .243. Remember, a 123-grain solid copper bullet should hold together and penetrate deeper than a much heavier conventional bullet.

Gatehouse, your hunting results with the 130 TSX should give a good indication of the effectiveness of this kind of load on game.

 

[madtrapper143]

Hmmmmm..... .311 123 gr TSX + my CZ carbine in 7.62X39 should = a fine little deer slayer.... Why do I keep getting ideas off of this forum?

cheers Darryl