30 Remington Reloading questions (and hopefully answers!)

OldCERA

OldCERA

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Hi Folks,
I've been trying to reload some 30 Remington for use in my Model 14. I've got good brass (both new and known once fired). Selections of powder for both it and my 30-30 loads. What I'm having specific problems with is finding a bullet that has the canellure at the right point on the bullet length. I've bought some Hornady 150 grain RN but the Canellure is in the "wrong" spot for the 30 REM. I can't crimp to the Canellure without exceeding my COL.

The cartridge trim to length is 2.040". COL is 2.525".

The factory rounds that I've measured are running around 2.450" OAL on round nose (Dominions for example).

If I use the Hornady 150 RN and try to get the crimp into the Canellure then my OAL is 2.540 at a minimum.

Any recommendations and sources of supply for both 150 and 170 Grain Round bullets that will fit the 30 Rem load?

Thanks! Thoughts?
Rob
 
Have you just slightly crimped the case mouth of your cases and seat a bullet with your fingers, chambered the test case and see what the "actual" throat length is.

If you have a longer throat then you might be able to use the Hornady bullets and crimp at the cannelure.

If not then you can try the 140 grain Hornady MonoFlex or 160 FTX bullets that have the cannelure closer to the bullet tip.

You can still use the Hornady 150 and 170 grain bullets and just crimp the bullet above the cannelure.

Below a Google search for "30 remington load data" and postings that may help you.
https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=Qmk-W7KfGcfa5gK6rKf4Bg&q=30+remington+load+data&oq=.30+remington+load&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.0i22i30k1l6.2232.13296.0.16092.21.19.1.0.0.0.153.1825.14j5.19.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..1.20.1833.0..0j38j0i131k1j35i39k1j0i20i264k1.0.zvWo74szId4
 
If the rounds cycle at whatever oal you are getting, then its a non-issue. Make up a few dummy rounds and try them. If you need to make them shorter to work, trim the brass a bit shorter
 
I handload 30 Rem. ammo for my Rem. Model 141, pretty much just a somewhat updated version of the Model 14, with the Hornady 150gr. RN bullets and have had no issues with the overall length of the rounds in my gun. Have you actually tried cycling some rounds through your rifle with these bullets?
 
The problem with seating the bullets further or deeper into the case is it raises the chamber pressure and throws the loading data off. And seating longer lowers the chamber pressure and also throws the loading data off.

I would make sure to start at the suggested starting load and work up.

At 38,000 cup or 42,000 psi max pressure my 30-30 loads always have the primers protruding from the base of the case.

Meaning if your primers are flush with the base of the case you are over 43,000 psi.

I always make workup loads and look for the point the primers are flush with the base of the case. At this point the base of the case is stretching to meet the bolt face.

If your primers protrude it does not mean the rifle headspace is excessive, it just tells you the amount of head clearance the resized case has. And on a rimless case it just shows you the shoulder location of the case vs the chambers shoulder location. And this is controlled by the amount of shoulder bump during sizing.

Below at lower chamber pressures the primer will always protrude from the base of the case. And your head clearance is the equivalent of the amount of shoulder bump.

Bottom line, as long as the primer is protruding the case is not stretching in the base of the case that can cause a case head separation. And lower pressure cartridges and reduced loads will have protruding primers. This is why the reloading manuals tell you to never use cartridges used for reduced loads again with full max pressure loads or you will have case head separations.

HK76WCp.jpg


Below is from the Sierra manual and the bottom paragraph covers protruding primers. Just remember older cartridges like the 30-30 and the 30 Remington at normal pressures do not generate enough pressure to make the brass stretch to meet the bolt face.

BLHD0lB.jpg
 
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I have always loaded my rounds to the maximum length the chamber/magazine will allow whether its a leaver, bolt, pump, or semi auto. I think your overthinking it trying to force a crimp into the cannelure. I shoot 44 S&W out of 44mags for cowboy action and had to seat my cast lead bullets about a tenth of an inch out further than the cannelure to make them function reliably in my Marlin. I have no problems unless i short stroke it, and I'm usually in the top 5 at the matches I go to.
 
Thanks BigEdp51,
That's cleared up a bunch of stuff for me - thank you! My understanding of the head space on a bottle neck was bugging me so this clears it up. I think I'm going to get one of those hornady Cartridge Length gauges and see if that makes it a little easier for me to figure this stuff out for my particular rifles. I'm old and grey but a complete neophyte to reloading. I'm taking it slow and easy!
Thanks again,
Rob
 
In a tube magazine you want lots of neck tension so bullets don't set back.

If it was me, I would make up a dummy round, with bullet crimped at the cannelure and see if it fed and ejected ok. If it did, that is what I would use.

If it did not work, I would remove the decapper/expander from ny FL die and re-size the cases, to make the necks tighter. That would hold any bullet, even with no crimp.
 
Awesome info folks.. Thank you! I'd never thought of a couple of the options suggested so I very much appreciate the input. I found a box of 170 Grain Nosler Partitions at our local guru's shop (John Pullen in Victoria) and they worked fine with respect to COL. A little pricey at about a buck a bullet but I'm happy all the same! Some measurements were also informative. The Hornady 150 Grain RN Interlocks were approx. 0.480" from tip to the first edge of the cannelure. The Nosler Partitions were approximately 0.460" from Tip to the first edge of the Cannelure. The Noslers were well within the COL and I got a good crimp. I did prepare a couple of dummy rounds and cycle them through with no problems in my Model 14 (30 REM). I'm going to use the Hornady's in the 30-30 as the dummy round was well within COL and cycled fine there. I used a 3031 powder and prepared a 26 Grain set and a 28 Grain Set. I had no problems with clearance for up to 28 grains of powder when using the nosler. I'll start trying to work up a load that's accurate once I get a Chrono - it should be in next week!

Any thoughts on starting with 26 grains on a 5 round set and then jumping directly to 28 Grains? Is that too big a jump?
 
Do you have a Chronograph? Older data shows up to 32 grains of 3031. Modern data has cut this back.

Without a Chronograph I would just go 27.5 grains (starting load for 30-30 according to Hodgdon) and call it done, it's doubtful that with the sights on the Model 14 that you'll be able to tune for accuracy, especially given the cannelure/crimping/OAL issue.
 
OldCERA said:
Awesome info folks.. Thank you! I'd never thought of a couple of the options suggested so I very much appreciate the input. I found a box of 170 Grain Nosler Partitions at our local guru's shop (John Pullen in Victoria) and they worked fine with respect to COL. A little pricey at about a buck a bullet but I'm happy all the same! Some measurements were also informative. The Hornady 150 Grain RN Interlocks were approx. 0.480" from tip to the first edge of the cannelure. The Nosler Partitions were approximately 0.460" from Tip to the first edge of the Cannelure. The Noslers were well within the COL and I got a good crimp. I did prepare a couple of dummy rounds and cycle them through with no problems in my Model 14 (30 REM). I'm going to use the Hornady's in the 30-30 as the dummy round was well within COL and cycled fine there. I used a 3031 powder and prepared a 26 Grain set and a 28 Grain Set. I had no problems with clearance for up to 28 grains of powder when using the nosler. I'll start trying to work up a load that's accurate once I get a Chrono - it should be in next week!

Any thoughts on starting with 26 grains on a 5 round set and then jumping directly to 28 Grains? Is that too big a jump?
Click to expand...

Yes, that is too big a jump.

If it just a velocity test, to find out where the speed limit is, I suggest only 2 rounds each, in 0.5 gr increments, from Start to a full grain past Max. Be prepared to bring some rounds home to pull.

Mark the powder charge on each case with a Sharpie, so you can examine each fired case later, looking for problems.

The main pressure sign will be velocity over the book max velocity and an extraction problem. If you get a hard extraction STOP SHOOTING. You might only get 1 warning before something lets go.
 
Thanks folks,
I've reduced the 28 grain set to 26.5 in accordance with your suggestion and will start with the 26 grain set. Saturday, I will hopefully get out there and test them out with a Chrono that I borrowed off a friend.....
I will also definitely be attentive to any signs of over pressure. As for the accuracy .... I'm certainly not even remotely the best shot in town and don't expect to lose any sleep over it with this rifle! With the Factory 30 to 40 year old loads, stock sites, from a sandbag rest, I hit a four inch "group" at a hundred yards. Free Standing: I actually missed one of the rounds on an 8" target at a 100 yards! My rifles shoot far better than I do! :) If I can develop a load that will safely maximise the impact that I can "provide" at a 100 to 150 yards, I'll be happy and take her out this fall! I'm learning a lot from this stuff which is pretty neat. I've also contacted Lee and got the info to have a "factory" crimp die made for me... not too bad actually - I send them a case, about $30 USD... they send me a factory crimp die.

Thanks to all.
 
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