300 Blackout AR15

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Suputin said:
$1600 for an upper! That guy is out of his mind.
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Questar sells them for new for $1,749 + taxes + shipping..

So at $1,600 shipped, NIB never fired...That's roughly $250 in the buyer's pocket. Could it be $700 in the buyer's pocket? Sure, but in which parallel universe is the real question.

I don't know the seller, but how is it that he's totally out to lunch?
 
Suputin said:
$1600 for an upper! That guy is out of his mind.
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I'll show you my PWS when we get together to work on my ACR barrel and you may get a better idea of why they are so pricey.
I paid $1400 NIB second hand for mine and don't regret it at all.
Yes it can be done cheaper but I'm not sure it can be done better for cheaper.
 
Suputin said:
Anyone who pays $1750 for an upper is out of their mind. Buy the component bits and a couple of tools and you can build an upper for prob half that price.
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So pretty much you're ruling out ever purchasing an upper from:
- KAC
- Noveske
- JP Enterprises
- LMT
- LaRue

I know I'm probably missing some in there.

I've priced out all of the individual parts for complete comparable/at level/no corners cut builds (both uppers and lowers) and the saving simply aren't what you make them to be (half the price, your quote).
 
What is so great about the calibre? Wasn't it designed for suppressed weapons ? I am worried that it is just the flavor of the month, I'm always weary of buy non NATO calibres/common military.

Someone enlighten me.
 
Slavex said:
We've already started working on a jig that will hold at least 100 rounds for a mill. if we make 4 jigs that's 400 rounds at a time.

But wouldn't a Giraud case trimmer work too?????
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if we are putting it on the mill we may as well have it trim, resize, ect ect ect (can you tell I dont load rifle and have no idea what the steps are? lol)
 
300 blackout brass forming is easy and quick.

I find after 1st firing i dont need to lube the brass when resizing (do this at your own risk)

[youtube]YwMEGt2DTsM[/youtube]

the block on the saw is from 300blktalkdotcom
 
BenL said:
So pretty much you're ruling out ever purchasing an upper from:
- KAC
- Noveske
- JP Enterprises
- LMT
- LaRue

I know I'm probably missing some in there.

I've priced out all of the individual parts for complete comparable/at level/no corners cut builds (both uppers and lowers) and the saving simply aren't what you make them to be (half the price, your quote).
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I build all my uppers and lowers from the parts I choose.

I have a total bitsa rifle that is my test mule and has endured more abuse than 99% of the ARs on CGN and it just keeps chugging along. So I have no time for super expensive name brand snobbery. Sure they are nice but how are they better?
 
Kanwar88 said:
What is so great about the calibre? Wasn't it designed for suppressed weapons ? I am worried that it is just the flavor of the month, I'm always weary of buy non NATO calibres/common military.

Someone enlighten me.
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It's hardly the calibre ofthe week. 300 Whisper has been around for nearly 25 years now and is growing in popularity all the time.
 
Suputin said:
I build all my uppers and lowers from the parts I choose.

I have a total bitsa rifle that is my test mule and has endured more abuse than 99% of the ARs on CGN and it just keeps chugging along. So I have no time for super expensive name brand snobbery. Sure they are nice but how are they better?
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I'll give you the benefit that you didn't say you could build a comparable upper of equal quality for half the price. You can build one - that's all you said.

A f'in Honda Civic will go a 400,000 miles, so will a C63 AMG. One is 5x more expensive...how is the Merc any better...or does your view and analysis only applies to ARs?

So again I ask. Can you build an upper, with comparable/equal quality parts, for half the cost? I certainly don't think so. Cheaper? Sure...but no need to call out a lot of members here idiots, or in your words - "out of our minds".
 
BenL said:
So pretty much you're ruling out ever purchasing an upper from:
- KAC
- Noveske
- JP Enterprises
- LMT
- LaRue

I know I'm probably missing some in there.

I've priced out all of the individual parts for complete comparable/at level/no corners cut builds (both uppers and lowers) and the saving simply aren't what you make them to be (half the price, your quote).
Click to expand...


Those are all top names but a milspec upper is a milspec upper. You pay the big bucks for those because of the name mostly, what sets them apart are the coatings they use and the quality components like $500 barrels, $300 triggers and upper and lower parts kits that don't say DPMS on the bags they come in. A bitsa or franken AR can be just as reliable and just as good as a Noveske or JP factory build.
Those that know what they're doing like Suputin can easily build a top quality AR just as good as any name brand rifle for a lot less money.
People like me who aren't as knowledgeable either buy complete rifles or in the case of my PWS buy a complete piston rifle designed from the ground up as a piston rifle and not a bolt on kit. I wanted to try a piston rifle and this was the best one for the money at the time. I liked it so much I bought a Mk112 223 and am very impressed.
My first DI build turned out really well but I've seen Suputin's work and it's on another level.
 
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BenL said:
I'll give you the benefit that you didn't say you could build a comparable upper of equal quality for half the price. You can build one - that's all you said.

A f'in Honda Civic will go a 400,000 miles, so will a C63 AMG. One is 5x more expensive...how is the Merc any better...or does your view and analysis only applies to ARs?

So again I ask. Can you build an upper, with comparable/equal quality parts, for half the cost? I certainly don't think so. Cheaper? Sure...but no need to call out a lot of members here idiots, or in your words - "out of our minds".
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One of the problems with this idiotic "tier" classification of AR manufacturers is that it is based on nothing of any substance. Is a colt BCG really better than a DPMS? Is a Mercedes better at driving to the store to pick up beer than a Honda? The BCG in my test mule is DPMS and it has run fine through a ####-ton of abuse. That particular upper is a Colt for no other reason than that is what I happened to have at the time. The bbl is a DPMS and I don't even remember what the gas block is. The forend is some crappy chinese part I picked up for next to nothing but it does the job.

So when you talk of "comparable quality" I would ask what makes a DD or Noveski part "better"? Do they look nicer or feel better ..... maybe. But do they perform better .... I highly doubt it. And in the end what I am mostly interested in is performance.

IMO spending ca $1700 on half a rifle is ludicrous when one could have just as good performance for half that price. If you want to spend that amount of cash on parts you think are better and make you feel better about yourself, be my guest but don't expect me to fawn all over that when I really think you are an idiot with too much money.


Those are all top names but a milspec upper is a milspec upper.
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Lets not forget that milspec has sweet FA to do with quality per se. Milspec is what the military has specified and for reasons specific to the military. Much of the milspec was determined decades ago and has not kept pace with technology. It also has to include price and stuff relevant only to the military. Civilian makers can do much better than milspec. In some cases a milspec dimension is totally meaningless. For example adjustable stocks and buffer tubes. The milspec dimension is only relevant to the two parts fitting together. A milspec buffer tube is not superior in any way to a commercial buffer tube.

The problem is most users don't understand what milspec means and many people use it to denigrate products that probably exceed milspec because they have an agenda.
 
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but Milspec is a standard. I buy they best I can afford, I have owned bushmaster,dpms,Armalite,DD,RRA and KAC AR's the KAC is hands down the better gun... But thats just me


I still own a Armalite as my back up/guest or lender rifle

now to find a good 10.3 300 blk barrel
 
I am keeping an eye on what is available in Canada. If the barrel is the only difference in uppers of a 300blk vs a .223, why the price increase?
 
Slavex said:
But wouldn't a Giraud case trimmer work too?????
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Giraud indexes on the shoulder, so it is feasible if you send him a finished case for a sample, he'll whip up a case holder and cutter for it.
His turn around time is solely dependant on how busy he is,or if he has one in stock ready to go (my guess), as I've had one turned around inside two weeks. .300 whisper/blackout is listed as an available cartridge.
 
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