300 Holland and Holland

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Kinda interesting clibre.

Reading the latest issue of Handloader and there was a article is in there.

It seems to be a interesting shell.

I wonder if there is any kind of wildcat out there that was necked down from it?
 
Probably a couple ways to look at it - from its length is about 1/4" longer than standard - so that much longer than 30-06, 300 Win Mag, etc. - so needs full size "magnum" action - like Model 70 Winchester, Model 700 Remington, M1917, etc. I had read that 300 H&H can chamber into and fire in a 300 Weatherby Mag chamber, and brass comes out as fire formed 300 Weatherby. Somewhere I read that the design of the case was to reproduce 30-06 performance, back in the day of only fast, heat sensitive powders, for use in extreme tropical heat like in India and Africa. So, argument could be made that some Weatherby cartridges below 30 caliber - 7mm, 270 for sure - could be considered a "wildcat" based on 300 H&H parent. Not real sure that it happened that way, but can be done, apparently!! Then, if you shorten that case by about 1/4", can make into almost any "modern" belted magnum - from 458 Lott, on down ... Or leave it as is and neck up to .375" bullets - I am sure that is what is the 375 H&H - but I am not sure which came first - the 30 cal or the 375 cal.
 
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Potashminer said:
Probably a couple ways to look at it - from its length is about 1/4" longer than standard - so that much longer than 30-06, 300 Win Mag, etc. - so needs full size "magnum" action - like Model 70 Winchester, Model 700 Remington, M1917, etc. I had read that 300 H&H can chamber into and fire in a 300 Weatherby Mag chamber, and brass comes out as fire formed 300 Weatherby. Somewhere I read that the design of the case was to reproduce 30-06 performance, back in the day of only fast, heat sensitive powders, for use in extreme tropical heat like in India and Africa. So, argument could be made that some Weatherby cartridges below 30 caliber - 7mm, 270 for sure - could be considered a "wildcat" based on 300 H&H parent. Not real sure that it happened that way, but can be done, apparently!! Then, if you shorten that case by about 1/4", can make into almost any "modern" belted magnum - from 458 Lott, on down ...
Click to expand...

That's very interesting!
 
The 300 Weatherby, the 340 Weatherby, the 7mm STW, the 358 STA and the 8mm Rem Mag are
all direct descendants of the 300 H&H Magnum case [Or the 375 H&H case]
The 7mm, 270 and 257 Weatherby Mags are all shortened, blown out versions of these.
Technically, you could most of the Belted magnum cases that we have around as well. Dave.
 
Potashminer said:
Probably a couple ways to look at it - from its length is about 1/4" longer than standard - so that much longer than 30-06, 300 Win Mag, etc. - so needs full size "magnum" action - like Model 70 Winchester, Model 700 Remington, M1917, etc. I had read that 300 H&H can chamber into and fire in a 300 Weatherby Mag chamber, and brass comes out as fire formed 300 Weatherby. Somewhere I read that the design of the case was to reproduce 30-06 performance, back in the day of only fast, heat sensitive powders, for use in extreme tropical heat like in India and Africa. So, argument could be made that some Weatherby cartridges below 30 caliber - 7mm, 270 for sure - could be considered a "wildcat" based on 300 H&H parent. Not real sure that it happened that way, but can be done, apparently!! Then, if you shorten that case by about 1/4", can make into almost any "modern" belted magnum - from 458 Lott, on down ... Or leave it as is and neck up to .375" bullets - I am sure that is what is the 375 H&H - but I am not sure which came first - the 30 cal or the 375 cal.
Click to expand...

The 375 H&H came around 13 years before the 300 H&H. It in turn was based on the 400/375 Rimless Belted Nitro Express which was shorter and came 7 years before the the 375 H&H. The 400/375 was a failure because it was an expensive way to go slow.
 
Potashminer said:
Probably a couple ways to look at it - from its length is about 1/4" longer than standard - so that much longer than 30-06, 300 Win Mag, etc. - so needs full size "magnum" action - like Model 70 Winchester, Model 700 Remington, M1917, etc. I had read that 300 H&H can chamber into and fire in a 300 Weatherby Mag chamber, and brass comes out as fire formed 300 Weatherby. Somewhere I read that the design of the case was to reproduce 30-06 performance, back in the day of only fast, heat sensitive powders, for use in extreme tropical heat like in India and Africa. So, argument could be made that some Weatherby cartridges below 30 caliber - 7mm, 270 for sure - could be considered a "wildcat" based on 300 H&H parent. Not real sure that it happened that way, but can be done, apparently!! Then, if you shorten that case by about 1/4", can make into almost any "modern" belted magnum - from 458 Lott, on down ... Or leave it as is and neck up to .375" bullets - I am sure that is what is the 375 H&H - but I am not sure which came first - the 30 cal or the 375 cal.
Click to expand...

The 300 H&H has always bested 30-06 ballistics since it's inception. You have to remember that originally the 06 was a good bit slower than we have achieved with modern loads. And yes, firing a 300 H&H in a 300 Wby chamber results in a nice new 300 Wby case. Pretty much all our belted magnums (except the 378 Wby based ones, which are basically a 416 Rigby case with a belt)are based on the 300/375 cases. Shortened, necked up or down, blown out and/or shoulders mover forward or backward, they all trace their ancestry back to the 375. Which means with the right dies you can make any belted magnum (again except the 378 Wby based ones) from a 375 or 300 case. - dan
 
Can't make .224 or 240 Weatherby from the H&H case. In the spirit of splitting hairs, the family of 2.500" magnums could be said to necked down 400/375 cases and not shortened .375 cases necked down. Sort of like 280 Rem and 270 Win being actually based on the 30-03 and not the 30-06.

Splitting hairs is fun. ;)
 
I've owned a few of them, still have one.
It's a great round, no better or worse than the 300 win mag or 300wsm.
I've shot two deer with mine, a big-bodied WT buck, and a smaller mule deer doe.
Can't recall where I hit the doe but the meat damage was not too bad, blood trail that Ray Charles could follow.
The buck was hit right on the shoulder from about 50m the exit on the opposite shoulder was massive, I could put my fist through the hole.
None of that is surprising given the speed, shot placement and distance but I'd think twice about shooting deer with it again when I expect short-range shots, great for Moose and elk though.
 
Dogleg said:
Can't make .224 or 240 Weatherby from the H&H case. In the spirit of splitting hairs, the family of 2.500" magnums could be said to necked down 400/375 cases and not shortened .375 cases necked down. Sort of like 280 Rem and 270 Win being actually based on the 30-03 and not the 30-06.

Splitting hairs is fun. ;)
Click to expand...

Yes, I forgot the baby Weatherby's. The rest is, as you say, splitting hairs. - dan
 
Dogleg said:
Can't make .224 or 240 Weatherby from the H&H case. In the spirit of splitting hairs, the family of 2.500" magnums could be said to necked down 400/375 cases and not shortened .375 cases necked down. Sort of like 280 Rem and 270 Win being actually based on the 30-03 and not the 30-06.

Splitting hairs is fun. ;)
Click to expand...

The .400/.375 is a smaller diameter case, roughly the same as an 8x57 with a belt.

Holland & Holland did introduce the first short belted magnum, the .275 H&H, in 1912, the same year as the .375.

Looks a lot like a 7mm RM.

.275H-H.jpg
 

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Just an interesting historical side-note about the 300 H&H; John Taylor had some thoughts on the 300 H&H and 275 H&H. In his book African rifles and cartridges he described the 300 as a stick of dynamite with a trigger (Or maybe it was lightning with a trigger?) It's sort of ironic that the guy who is most remembered for his thoughts on the best way to either knock a pissed off elephant to his knees or reconsider it's actions had observed that the fastest killer of plains game just happened to be the highest velocity 30 cal of his day (or experience) with by today's standards rather frangible bullets. He also liked the the 275 for the same reasons.
 
Dogleg said:
Can't make .224 or 240 Weatherby from the H&H case. In the spirit of splitting hairs, the family of 2.500" magnums could be said to necked down 400/375 cases and not shortened .375 cases necked down. Sort of like 280 Rem and 270 Win being actually based on the 30-03 and not the 30-06.

Splitting hairs is fun. ;)
Click to expand...

The 400/375 Belted was not the same case as the later 375 H&H, it was more like a lengthened and belted X57 case or a belted 30-03.

400/375 >>> 240 Apex >>> 240 Apex Improved aka 240 Weatherby.
 
I picked up a 300 H&H a year ago. A gun I've been lusting for for several years. I also acquired about 15 boxes of factory ammo and about 200 plus brass for it. I shot some of the factory 180 grain silvertips which were so so as far as groups. What I was surprised at was the recoil as there was less than my 30-06 - mind you my 30-06 is lighter. I have not loaded for it yet but do intend to in the next few winters. I believe the previous owner told me that he loaded IMR4350 with better results than 4831. I also have some RL22 to try. I will be loading 150 - 180 grain bulets,.
 
RE#22 70gr /180 gr Partition gave .292" groups out of a pre-64 model 70. Many say a 200 gr bullet is the most accurate.I have a box of 200gr Partitions to try.
 
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