300 mag match load

tallpinescamp

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Hi I want to develope a Match load for my 300 Win Mag. I have been looking at 220 and 240 Seirra Matchkings.
I was wondering if anyone has any experience with these bullets or knows anything about them that I should know before starting this project.
Thanks
 
Knew a guy who regularly won DCRA 1,000 yard matches using 190 grain match bullets. Mind you, his rifle was a custom made rifle on a Win 70A action and weighed 17.5 pounds. Haven't a clue what load he used though. Not that it would matter. You have to work up the load for your rifle.
 
Even with the velocity you'll get from your .300, a fast twist (1:8) will be required for the 240 gr bullet to stabilize. The 220 gr MK should work with a 1:10 twist but you might consider the 210 gr MK as well. MK's are long for their weight, and the 220 might prove to be only marginally stable down range. Buy a box of each and see what you get the best results with at 300 yards. By the time a bullet has travelled that far it should have settled down and give a reasonable indication of how it might perform at long range.
 
Most people WAAAAAY over-stabilize 30 cal bullets. Even the Berger 210 grain (a very long bullet!) only needs a 1:11. There isn't a 30 cal mass produced bullet bullet made that needs anything more than 1:10" twist to stabilize properly.
 
Have shot both and they did OK at LR. Big one is QC from Sierra. There have been some really bad batches. When they are sorted, they shoot as well as any other match bullet.

Personally, I now only shoot Berger, Amax and Lapua.

The 300WM is an ideal platform for the 210gr Berger and 208gr Amax. Both will go a very long ways accurately.

As for powders, there are lots of choices and I refer to a load manual for amounts. Look for a Hodgdon Extreme powder that will fill the case at max pressure. Primers are Fed215M. Brass is Winchester if you can find any.

The big one is watching runout when you are making the ammo. I love the Lee collet neck die but the Redding bushing die works too. A Redding body die can help bump the shoulder but there isn't much you can do infront of the belt. If the chamber is 'fat' here, brass life will be short.

Both the Redding and Forster seater are really good. These long pointy bullets need attention as it is quite easy to seat them cockeyed.

Get a runout guage and keep things as true as possible.

From there, you just work up a load like any other cartridge and see what your rifle likes.

Jerry
 
Most people WAAAAAY over-stabilize 30 cal bullets. Even the Berger 210 grain (a very long bullet!) only needs a 1:11. There isn't a 30 cal mass produced bullet bullet made that needs anything more than 1:10" twist to stabilize properly.

I'm curious to know what you believe the down side of a fast twist to be. I have three .30 caliber barrels at this time a 1:12, a 1:10, and a 1:8. Not only is the Krieger 1:8 is the most accurate barrel I've ever owned, it is accurate regardless of bullet weight with match bullets as light as 168. I haven't tried 155's but I see no reason why it wouldn't shoot those as well.

In my experience, light bullets appear to shoot as well from a fast twist barrel as they do in slower twist barrels. I am driving a 200 gr bullet at 2700 fps, from a .308 Winchester, the barrel is 28" and has a long lead so I can seat the bullet long, but still loss of velocity due to the fast twist is not apparent. Spin drift is often quoted as a concern with fast twist barrels, but if it exists it will be a constant and and is easily corrected for, but in all honesty I can't say that I've ever allowed for it, and still I can hit MOA out to 1200 yards under favorable conditions.

I haven't tried the 240 MK's yet, but I have shot 240 gr Woodleighs in my hunting rifles. The Woodleigh is a round nose flat base bullet, so although it has some taper it is almost as short as a bullet of this weight can be. This bullet will not stabilize in my 1:12 barrel, and it shows slight yaw on the 100 yard target from the 1:10 barrel. Being a hunting bullet I have not shot it in my target gun. The point is that the 240 gr MK is longer, and if the 240 RN is only marginally stable when fired from a 1:10, the MK, particularly at long range could be disappointing. The 6mm 107 gr MK has a similar length to diameter ratio as the .308/240 MK, and is about 5 diameters in length. It will not stabilize from my 1:10 .243 barrel. Another very accurate fast twist barrel was my .224" 1:7. This barrel would shoot stubby little 52 gr MK's extremely well, and was the barrel that started me thinking that concerns about shooting short bullets in fast twist barrels was overstated.

I think it is fair to say that any given twist will stabilize a broad range of bullet lengths. I also think it is fair to say that, in theory at least, a given bullet has a best rate of twist. Finally, I think that a fast twist barrel can accurately shoot a wider range of bullet lengths than can a slower twist. I am sure there is a point of diminishing returns, but I don't know where that is yet.
 
Faster twists will stabilize a wide variety of bullets, and do reasonably well but... The down-sides to over twisting are three-fold.

In any bullet, going with tighter than neccessary twist will result in more torsional force on the rifle when the round is fired, thus affecting accuracy. Taking a bullet from 0 - 200000 RPM in a millisecond creates phenominal torque.

Secondly, going with a tight twist will wear the throat faster as the bullet slams into rifling at an angle more accute than it needs to be.

Thirdly, light bullets in a tight twist can disintegrate from excesive RPM!

There are the odd exceptions to the rule, but going to a 1:8 will have few if any tanginle benefits to heavy bullets, but will certainly have detriments to lighter ones. In Krieger's case anyting tighter than 1:10 is custom... if it were remotely needed, they would make it.
 
Faster twists will stabilize a wide variety of bullets, and do reasonably well but... The down-sides to over twisting are three-fold.

In any bullet, going with tighter than neccessary twist will result in more torsional force on the rifle when the round is fired, thus affecting accuracy. Taking a bullet from 0 - 200000 RPM in a millisecond creates phenominal torque.

Secondly, going with a tight twist will wear the throat faster as the bullet slams into rifling at an angle more accute than it needs to be.

Thirdly, light bullets in a tight twist can disintegrate from excesive RPM!

There are the odd exceptions to the rule, but going to a 1:8 will have few if any tanginle benefits to heavy bullets, but will certainly have detriments to lighter ones. In Krieger's case anyting tighter than 1:10 is custom... if it were remotely needed, they would make it.



You may very well be correct on all counts, and your experience is much broader than my observations, but still I offer the following:

1) Should not the shorter bullet be less effected by torque than the longer bullet? Thus, the short bullet should prove more accurate than a long bullet from the fast twist bore. Yet I have observed good to phenomenal results from both light and heavy bullets in a fast twist barrels. Moving from a 1:10 .308 barrel to 1:8 is not such a great departure, but if there is an accuracy detriment to fast twist barrels it should be apparent when I chose the 1:7 to replace the 1:14 factory barrel of my .222. Yet this 1:7 barrel shot almost all bullets exceptionally well. The single exception was the Winchester FMJ bulk bullet (I don't recall the weight, perhaps 62 gr.) which will never be accused of being a match bullet.

2) You might have something here, as a rifle with a chamber cut for a heavy bullet can have the heavy bullet seated closer to the lands than may be possible with a light bullet; thus the light bullet would enter the rifling at a higher velocity. But my head tells me that with a similar jump to the lands, from the initial contact of the bullets bearing surface until such time that the bullet has completely entered the rifled portion of the bore, the forces at play should be similar, regardless of the rate of twist. Otherwise gain twist barrels would have ruled the world.

3) Yes, absolutely correct! A thin jacketed, high velocity, bullet does not respond well to a fast twist barrel. My 1:7 .222 required me to abandon light weight SX and Blitz style bullets.

Precessional velocity is separate from the rotational speed of the bullet, and is defined as the velocity of the center of the base of the bullet around the flight path. In exterior ballistics this occurs at two stages of flight: when the bullet first exits the bore until such time as it can stabilize at some point down range, and again when it impacts the target. From an accuracy point of view, the faster rotational velocity should overcome the precessional velocity that occurs when the bullet exits the muzzle in a shorter period of time, thus improving accuracy.

In a hunting context, there is a theory that given two identical bullets at the same velocity on the same target, the bullet with the faster rotational velocity penetrates deeper. If true, this would result in a no cost advantage to the hunting rifle with the faster twist. The reason for deeper penetration is that the torque applied to each bullet as it contacts the target is more easily overcome by the faster rotation and as a result that bullet precesses less.

Kreiger makes large runs of standard twist .30 caliber barrels. The price he charges for any given barrel is reflected by the number of barrels he has a market for. Palma shooters never shoot other than 154-155 match bullets, thus they choose the twist that is optimum for that bullet weight. Service rifle shooters aren't even aware that bullets other than 168 gr and 173 gr MK's exist, so a 1:10 -1:12 twist is very common. Long Range shooters who want to use heavy bullets don't buy as many barrels, so the fast twist barrel costs more because fewer are made, not because there is less need.
 
I use the 208gr Amax, Nosler Custom Brass, 70.5gr Hogdon 4831sc, Federal match primers.

It's a recipee that works phenomonaly well in our .300WM's. Both rifles have shot consistant to 1760yrds in Summerland and been on many long range hunts, competitions, and Sh*ts and Giggles shoots. The 208grn Amax is a bullet that serves me well in all I do with my rifle from long range hunting to targets and competitions. We run RKS barrels in our rifles with a 1:10 twist
 
I'm shooting an M40A1 Mcmillan rifle built on a Remington 700 long action. Obermeyer barrel with 1-11 5R twist, 26 inches long. My load is a 190 Sierra matchking, Winchester brass, Federal 215primer, 68.5 grains of IMR 4350. Overall length 3.340 inches, chrono velocity was 2960fps, very low extreme spread. I use the same load for Lapua 185 Silver Scenar, but haven't run them over the chrono.

Mcmillan originally recommended a load of 70 grains of the same powder, and I shot that for years, but experimented with the lighter load, and my rifle seemed to like it, so I stayed with it. Besides, the 70 grain load ate up barrels at about 850 rounds. Got expensive. The Obermeyer barrel is #4 on this rifle, and I'm sort of babying this barrel. Currently has about 650 rounds through it, and I just put the bullets out to 3.350 overall length. I haven't checked for accuracy, but this change was based on measuring where the bullets engaged the rifling, and it has gone out a bit, so I'm just keeping up.

I know you asked about heavier bullets, but recoil, and excellent performance have kept me with this load. I usually get groups of 1.3 inches at 300 yards with it. If I have a really good day (not often) the rifle will give me .75 inches at 300 yards, but I'm not a good itty-bitty group shooter. The 1.3 inch groups are very common. Smaller ones rare, but I like coffee too much.
 
With the 200SMK at 2900fps I get an average group of 1.5 inches at 350yds with RL-22...This load shoots very well for me but is not completely temperature insensitive. If conditions are good and I hold my lips just right I can stack 5 very close to an inch.
The 210 Berger shoots about the same.

I am experimenting with H-4831 with the same bullets, but I never seem to get good test conditions...This powder seems to like 2850fps, is temperature insensitive, and seems to like 2825-2850fps....More testing to come.

Thinking about trying H-1000.

The 240 SMK would often keyhole and would occasionally not hit the 100yd target in my 10"twist....My buddy shoots them fine....Can't help you there.
 
Faster twists will stabilize a wide variety of bullets, and do reasonably well but... The down-sides to over twisting are three-fold.

In any bullet, going with tighter than neccessary twist will result in more torsional force on the rifle when the round is fired, thus affecting accuracy. Taking a bullet from 0 - 200000 RPM in a millisecond creates phenominal torque.

Secondly, going with a tight twist will wear the throat faster as the bullet slams into rifling at an angle more accute than it needs to be.

Thirdly, light bullets in a tight twist can disintegrate from excesive RPM!

There are the odd exceptions to the rule, but going to a 1:8 will have few if any tanginle benefits to heavy bullets, but will certainly have detriments to lighter ones. In Krieger's case anyting tighter than 1:10 is custom... if it were remotely needed, they would make it.

For curiosities sake, what about a much slower cartridge like a 300 whisper with long heavy 30 cal bullets ?? Can you get away with a 1:10 twist or would the faster twist be of benefit in this case ??

Inquiring minds ..... :)
 
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