300 Wim Mag Re-load

[Aprilia Man]

Hi Guys,

Looking into a 300 Win Mag Rifle and want to ask about re-loading the 300 win mag cartridge.

I have good experience with re-loading 9mm, 45 ACP , 233 Rem and 308 win.

The 300 win mag is a little new to me.

I know on the the 308 I use an FL die and ST die to make a round.

For the 300 win mag is this die necessary to make the cases last more than 10 re-loads? --> http://www.larrywillis.com/300winmag.html

Anyone using it?

Any info is much appreciated.


Thanks

 

[Northman999]

I reload for 300 win mag, and some other belted magnums.

Honestly, I have no idea what the author of the page you reffered to is talking about in terms of "bulging ring" or whatever.

I've had 10+ reloads on some of my belted magnum cases.

I just use regular full length dies. I FL resize if buying 1F brass from others, or else back off my dies a little to neck size most of the time. I'll FL resize if the shoulder needs bumping back a little, and then go back to neck sizing. Same as I do with my .308, and other non-belted magnums.

I think someone is just trying to sell you something.

 

[bigedp51]

Your have a belted case and "some" dies stop sizing before reaching the belt and the cases develops a "bulge" and become hard to chamber. The Larry Willis die will compress the bulged cases and fix the problem. This problem is caused by chamber diameter and reloading die diameter and how far down it sizes the case above the belt. The problem gets worse if you try and extend case life and headspace the case on the shoulder and not the belt.

The problem does exist and it depends on your chamber and dies and how the case is made, meaning some brands of cases are better. If you notice your die setup instructions always tell you to adjust the die until it contacts the shell holder and then adjust it a 1/4 turn more. Doing this will push the shoulder back too far and shorten case life and raising the die for minimum shoulder bump "might" leave a "bulge" above the belt.

As you can see above Northman999 has perfected his die juggling act and has good case life, the rest is up to you, your rifle, your dies and your brass.

You will want to treat your belted case like a standard rimless bottleneck case and make it headspace off the shoulder and not the belt.

 

[Kirk930]

I actually have one of those collet dies being shipped to me as we speak. Should see it early next week.

I've recently started reloading .257 Weatherby and there is definitely bulging on some of my reloaded Hornady cases.....albeit only a few thousandths, but that's enough to not allow finished rounds to chamber properly. I'm using Redding dies to FL size.

Also, I've started resizing used 7mm Rem Magnum to 257 Wby and the bulge exists on almost all of those cases. The collet die should fix this issue....I hope!

Never had an issue like this with any other reloading I've done.

 

[sunray]

The die used has nothing to do with it. Case life is entirely dependant on the load used. Hot loads reduce case life of any cartridge. If that die actually made a difference, the big name companies would make the die.

 

[Eagleye]

Sunray........if you are unaware of the usefulness of something, don't guess!!
Larry Willis' special die is useful in some cases.
I have owned one for quite some time, and it works as intended, and saves brass that otherwise would be discarded.

Magnum chambers tend to vary a bit in length to shoulder dimensions, allowing for the bulge spoken of.

But to answer the OP's question, you can do fine without the special die in 98% of cases.

Regards, Dave.

 

[bigedp51]

Below is an example of case bulge, both of the once fired cases below were factory loaded and fired in the same Enfield rifle and not reloaded. The Prvi case on the left is larger in base diameter and has thicker case walls. The Greek HXP case has a smaller base diameter and much thinner case walls. So again your chamber diameter your reloading die diameter and case construction all play a part in the bulge problem. We live in a plus and minus manufacturing world and you need the pluses and minuses to null each other out.

And sunray needs to walk away from his computer and find another hobby he knows something about.

 

[crazy_davey]

Your have a belted case and "some" dies stop sizing before reaching the belt and the cases develops a "bulge" and become hard to chamber. The Larry Willis die will compress the bulged cases and fix the problem. This problem is caused by chamber diameter and reloading die diameter and how far down it sizes the case above the belt. The problem gets worse if you try and extend case life and headspace the case on the shoulder and not the belt.

I have Larry's die, have for a long time. It does exactly as advertised. Yes, you don't need one for every belted magnum chamber but I have seen more than a few now that needed the die. It is a great tool to have in the arsenal if you reload belted magnums much.

 

[crazy_davey]

The die used has nothing to do with it. Case life is entirely dependant on the load used. Hot loads reduce case life of any cartridge. If that die actually made a difference, the big name companies would make the die.

You sir, don't have a clue, as usual.

 

[Aprilia Man]

Just a little confused (see highlight)

Please explain.

Your have a belted case and "some" dies stop sizing before reaching the belt and the cases develops a "bulge" and become hard to chamber. The Larry Willis die will compress the bulged cases and fix the problem. This problem is caused by chamber diameter and reloading die diameter and how far down it sizes the case above the belt. The problem gets worse if you try and extend case life and headspace the case on the shoulder and not the belt.

The problem does exist and it depends on your chamber and dies and how the case is made, meaning some brands of cases are better. If you notice your die setup instructions always tell you to adjust the die until it contacts the shell holder and then adjust it a 1/4 turn more. Doing this will push the shoulder back too far and shorten case life and raising the die for minimum shoulder bump "might" leave a "bulge" above the belt.

As you can see above Northman999 has perfected his die juggling act and has good case life, the rest is up to you, your rifle, your dies and your brass.

You will want to treat your belted case like a standard rimless bottleneck case and make it headspace off the shoulder and not the belt.

 

[c-fbmi]

If you are getting or wanting 10 reloads from a case you are not loading to the full potential of the cartridge....................LOL JMHO !!!!

 

[crazy_davey]

Just a little confused (see highlight)

Please explain.

What is it that you don't understand? You don't know how to headspace off of the shoulder instead of the belt?

 

[bigedp51]

Just a little confused (see highlight)

Please explain.

If you raise the die for minimum shoulder bump and not contact the shell holder you are not sizing as far down the case. This can create more bulge and more problems.

I do not have any images of belted cases and the best I can do is using a rimed .303 British case.

The rimed case and the belted case headspaces on the rim or belt and the forward part of the case does not have to conform to exact chamber dimensions. When you full length resize the cases with the die making hard contact with the shell holder you can "over resize" the case and shorten its case life. Now watch the animated image below and the position of the case before and after firing.

Once the case has been fire formed to the chamber on a rimed or belted case to extend case life you let the case headspace on the shoulder which then holds the case against the bolt face. You forget about the rim and belt and just use the shoulder of the case to headspace inside the chamber. This reduces head clearance and helps prevent case stretching in the base web area.

The problem using this method is the sizing die may not size the case correctly just above the the belt and it may cause more case bulge. To solve this problem Larry Willis makes a collet die that squeezes the base of the case and gets rid of the bulge.

Bottom line, adjust your full length dies for minimum shoulder bump and then see if the bulge causes any problems. If you do have a problem "then" you can but the Larry Willis die if you need it.

 

[Aprilia Man]

^^^ Thank You! .... the images helped a lot. Now I understand.

 

[bigedp51]

If you are getting or wanting 10 reloads from a case you are not loading to the full potential of the cartridge....................LOL JMHO !!!!

All that is required is a proper hit in the kill zone, the dead animal won't complain if the bullet is going 300 fps slower than your barrel burning loads. I have 30-30 case over 25 years old and only fail on me with split necks loaded to the max rated chamber pressure of 38,000 cup or 42,000 psi. The higher the chamber pressure the greater the stress on the brass, and by understanding this stress and minimum resizing I have gotten 30 reloads from .303 British cases.

The target below is dead, it has 50 holes in its chest and there isn't any scorch marks on the target with 3.2 grains of titegroup and I get plenty of reloads from the cases. Loading to the full potential of the cartridge means it's harder on the firearm and the brass.

My practice AR15 loads are 50,000 psi and the maximum rated chamber pressure is 60,000 psi (CIP NATO) and the load is accurate and good enough for 100 yards or less. And the "potential" of breaking the rifle is less with the "potential" for long case life.

If you want "potential" then think "BIG".

 

[bigedp51]

^^^ Thank You! .... the images helped a lot. Now I understand.

I'm retired and have been reloading for over 46 years, during the winter I always pick up one of my reloading manuals and read the front of the manual. It's really amazing the amount of information you can find that you forgot about or what leaked out of your ears.

All the information in the world is written in books, and all you have to do is read.

(and "DO NOT" read or believe anything sunray writes here, it will make you retarded)

 

[Dogleg]

I've got one, and though it works as advertised there is seldom any need for it. Seldom however, is not the same as never. I got mine because I had a pile of pricy .257 Weatherby brass that had been fired in one rifle that I traded off, and despite my usual tricks some of it was a little tight in the .257s that remained. My son uses that caliber, and there are advantages to him being able to use my ammo. Some of my .300 Win's had stupidly tight chambers (Reamer experiment gone wrong) and a little extra squeeze made things move a long.

Just for fun, some of the tricks are using a small base .300 Win die with no expander ball to massage the bases of any standard magnum case shorter than it. A small base 30-06 die would do the same on .270, and my .270 Weatherby die is slightly tighter than my .257 so that works too. The Willis tool fits in with the theme, but most people will never need one.

I've seen where people have bumped the shoulder way to far back to get cartridges to chamber. In many of those cases the culprit was actually a over-sized base not a shoulder being inadequately bumped. Shaving the die or shellholder will ram the case farther into the die, solving one problem while creating another. In an instance like that, the Willis tool or a small base die is a better answer.

 

[Dogleg]

All that is required is a proper hit in the kill zone, the dead animal won't complain if the bullet is going 300 fps slower than your barrel burning loads. I have 30-30 case over 25 years old and only fail on me with split necks loaded to the max rated chamber pressure of 38,000 cup or 42,000 psi. The higher the chamber pressure the greater the stress on the brass, and by understanding this stress and minimum resizing I have gotten 30 reloads from .303 British cases.

The target below is dead, it has 50 holes in its chest and there isn't any scorch marks on the target with 3.2 grains of titegroup and I get plenty of reloads from the cases. Loading to the full potential of the cartridge means it's harder on the firearm and the brass.

My practice AR15 loads are 50,000 psi and the maximum rated chamber pressure is 60,000 psi (CIP NATO) and the load is accurate and good enough for 100 yards or less. And the "potential" of breaking the rifle is less with the "potential" for long case life.

If you want "potential" then think "BIG".

I think he has "Big" covered.

 

[Ganderite]

I load a number of different belted magnums in different calibers. I find the ammo makers rather sloppy about where they place the belt. If I size back to the belt, pushing the shoulder back each time, the brass does not last as long. So I size it the same way I do a 303Brit. I partial size just enough for a snug fit. With a bolt action rifle, I don't mind a bit of resistance when I close the bolt. Ammo intended for a double rifle gets sized a bit more, for an easy fit.

 

[Kryogen]

For 300 win mag I FL once then just use the lee collet die.

After 5-6 reloads the cases still fit fine....

My bolt cases only get a FL once, and then it's only collet die.

If some really start to be hard to close, they will get another fl shoulder bump