300 win ladder testing inconclusive

vpsalin

vpsalin

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My first time loading for 300 win. I loaded up some ladder testing loads.

165 Interlocks. All 3.340 OAL with once fired Rem Brass. All using Ramshot Magnum powder. The rifled used was Zastava 24inch

Started with 85.1GR in 0.3 increments all the way to 86.6GR.

None of the groups were any good what so ever. I don't even think I achieved 4.5 inches. Each group was all equally terrible.

I'm wondering what to try next. Does this mean the rifle doesn't like 165 grainers, doesn't like the powder...what? Do I need to load below 85.1GR?
 
Ah the joys of reloading!

I have used Magnum in the 300. Really performs with heavier bullets 180+.

With 165's I have had good success with 4350, 4831 and RL22.
 
Has your rifle shot accurately with other ammo?

Is the stock glass bedded?

New scope? Loose scope mounts? Crushed tube? Parallax issue?

Have you shot 300 Win Mag rifles before with good accuracy?
 
In a model 70 Winchester I had in 300 WM and in a ;) 'close cousin', a model 65DL Schultz & Larsen in 308 NM that I still have, my best accuracy came with the Sierra 200gr SBT and a top end load of IMR 4350. The groups with both rifles opened up a little when lighter weight bullets were used.
 
That's kinda the problem. I'm sorta married to the 165 loading since I want to handload a practice duplicate load to the hundreds of dollars worth of 165 trophy copper factory stuff I have. I'm also partial to the 165 copper idea and I'm hoping to make it work somehow...

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vpsalin said:
That's kinda the problem. I'm sorta married to the 165 loading since I want to handload a practice duplicate load to the hundreds of dollars worth of 165 trophy copper factory stuff I have. I'm also partial to the 165 copper idea and I'm hoping to make it work somehow...
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Then you better get some lots of different powder. Have fun, and you may well shoot a lot of your hundreds of dollars worth before you find the best one. As already pointed out, "the joys of reloading"
 
Having never tried 165 grain bullets in my 300 WM, it was my opinion this was driving the light bullet too hard.
Tried 180's and was not pleased but found a niche with the 190's . . . Sierra MK and Hornady SPBT.
The accuracy loads were from the Sierra Infinity using 70.6 grains of Re22 for the MK (1.5" for 5 shots at 300) and max for the Hornady hunting bullet (3.0" for five shots at 300 yards).
When Loading the 180's, the recommended accuracy loads with the powders in the locker were tried but only loading three rounds.
When they did not work they were scrubbed. Pushing more powder behind an unwilling bullet would give rise to the definition of insanity.
Where did you find the 165 grain accuracy loads? or was it your self proclaimed love affair with them?
 
Everyone shoots 180 in 300WM and they say with copper to drop down a weight-size or two. I'm confident a 165 copper will do the job down range, only problem is getting them to group nicely right now.

I think my next move is 1 - Check if my factory 165 copper groups properly, 2- load down from 85.1GR for handloads, 3- try 180GR bullets next ;(

Does anyone know the twist rate on late-model Zastava's (300WM)?
 
with 165gr interlocks and barnes bullets H1000 gave the best results. Then I switched up to 180 gr bullets and never looked back. My gun likes 180 gr bullets. Often 2 touching out of three shot.
 
Factory rifles are picky. It mite take a lot of work to get it shooting good. Try seating depths too, it cheaper than new powders/ bullets. But some guns don’t like curtain bullets and nothing you can do about it. You said your doing ladder test but shooting groups? That doesn’t add up. Unless your shooting long range, a ladder test has no advantage, just shoot groups.
 
vpsalin said:
That's kinda the problem. I'm sorta married to the 165 loading since I want to handload a practice duplicate load to the hundreds of dollars worth of 165 trophy copper factory stuff I have. I'm also partial to the 165 copper idea and I'm hoping to make it work somehow...

27840_2397984.jpg
Click to expand...

INMHO, your choice of components for a "duplicate load" is wrong. Your 165 gr. Interlock is a flat based bullet, whereas the copper bullet in your factory ammo (a Barnes TTSX, if I am not mistaken) is a boattail bullet. They will fly differently. Further, the all copper bullet is a longer bullet, leaving less interior volume in the case, resulting in higher pressures. Your choice of powder for that load is also likely wrong. Ramshot Magnum is in the burn range of H1000. That powder would be ideal for a 220 gr. bullet, but way too slow burning for a traditional 165 gr. bullet. My guess is that you are not generating enough pressure, or getting an incomplete burn, which would explain the inconsistent results. Your load bracket is also quite narrow.

Suggestion: buy either Hornady GMX 165, or Barnes TTSX 165 gr. bullets. Load them with something in the H4350 to H4831 burn rate range.
 
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vpsalin said:
Everyone shoots 180 in 300WM and they say with copper to drop down a weight-size or two. I'm confident a 165 copper will do the job down range, only problem is getting them to group nicely right now.

I think my next move is 1 - Check if my factory 165 copper groups properly, 2- load down from 85.1GR for handloads, 3- try 180GR bullets next ;(

Does anyone know the twist rate on late-model Zastava's (300WM)?
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I think Horseman has raised an important issue. Where are you getting your load data from? A cursory check of Nosler’s loading data for 165-168 gn, ranges 50 (min) to 80 (max) across all of the listed powders. There is nothing coming close to the 85 gn load you’re describing. I have another manual on the shelf but haven’t bothered to check. In light of this, and not knowing which powder you’re loading, I’m very concerned that you’re over loading. If you’re not already, follow published loading data.

This is not a technical answer, but more of a philosophical one. I would encourage you to think about reloading and testing as a process for learning what factors create the best results in your rifle. You may really want to shoot 165s all day long, but all that’s likely going to get you is a 165 gn load—not a load that works best for your rifle.

I would suggest:
1. Find and follow published loading data;
2. Calculate your barrel twist;
3. Buy some bullets at different weights in the range of weights that will stabilize for your barrel twist;
4. Using the published data, work up loads and see what happens;
5. If your rifles likes a heavier bullet, pull the bullets out of your factory loads and use the cases; and
6. Shoot to your heart’s content.

Tldr: Your rifle doesn’t care that you want to shoot 165s.
 
Barnes lists magnum-ramshot at 86.6 and I've seen publications as high as 86.8gr. I had no pressure signs at 86.6 whatsoever.
 
Agree with several posters here who suggested that Magnum is a bit slow for 165 grain bullets
in the 300 Win Mag. I would be playing with IMR 4831 or 4350 [H or IMR] another candidate is
the newer Enduron offering: IMR 4451. Dave.
 
vpsalin said:
Barnes lists magnum-ramshot at 86.6 and I've seen publications as high as 86.8gr. I had no pressure signs at 86.6 whatsoever.
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I'm not familiar with that powder, but it sounds like you are starting your testing within a very narrow margin on the max load. When I do these sort of tests I go down to the recommended starting load and shoot 5-10 shot groups going up in 1 or 2 grain increments (depending in the rifle cartridge and powder) until reaching max, or until you see pressure signs, whatever comes first. Sometimes you find a spot your rifle likes that is lower than the max load. Take home the results and load up a a few sets of 5 or 10 rounds each in 0.2-0.5 grain increments above and below the best group and then narrow down where the "sweet spot" is for your rifle.
Are you using a Chronograph for load development? Charting the average velocities and max spread in velocities of each group with a chronograph really helps tell you what is happening with your load, even if you are not loading for long range.
 
As mentioned, you are wasting your time with .3 grain changes in the300 win. I normally start mid point with a modern rifle and work my way towards max. I would swap over to H or IMR 4350 and start at mid load and go up one grain for each stage. I make 5 rounds of each normally, and shoot 3 shot groups at this stage. Gives you an extra round or two if you flinch, pull, etc. The bullet I would suggest is an SST as they match pretty close to what you are shooting. I wouldn’t question the 165 in a copper bullet as they need speed, but I typically run heavier for lead bullets.

First step it to try your factory ammo for groups. Perhaps your time is better spent developing a hunting load. Lol.
 
horseman2 said:
Having never tried 165 grain bullets in my 300 WM, it was my opinion this was driving the light bullet too hard.
Tried 180's and was not pleased but found a niche with the 190's . . . Sierra MK and Hornady SPBT.
The accuracy loads were from the Sierra Infinity using 70.6 grains of Re22 for the MK (1.5" for 5 shots at 300) and max for the Hornady hunting bullet (3.0" for five shots at 300 yards).
When Loading the 180's, the recommended accuracy loads with the powders in the locker were tried but only loading three rounds.
When they did not work they were scrubbed. Pushing more powder behind an unwilling bullet would give rise to the definition of insanity.
Where did you find the 165 grain accuracy loads? or was it your self proclaimed love affair with them?
Click to expand...

"Pushing more powder" behind a bullet is exactly how most of us work up an accurate load.
 
todbartell said:
Has your rifle shot accurately with other ammo?

Is the stock glass bedded?

New scope? Loose scope mounts? Crushed tube? Parallax issue?

Have you shot 300 Win Mag rifles before with good accuracy?
Click to expand...

Ditto on the telescope questions. I had a 300WM that wouldn't group for ####e, and seemed to throw random shots out of the main 'assembly point'. I switched out the scope, and everything settled right down. Groups consistently under 2" at the ranges I expected to shoot deer. Yup. A bad scope.
 
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