300 win mag ammo
- Thread starter Moose hunter
- Start date
Casull said:
Yup...I did just that. Whacked a fair number of critters with the 35 Whelen and 225gr TSX @ 2750fps, and couldn't see a lick of difference in the way they died over my 280AI w/140gr TSX (both were devastating). Found the 35 Whelen was sitting in the cabinet and the 280AI was having all the fun...so I sold the Whelen. Just couldn't handle not having the 280AI's laser trajectory and light recoil and want for nothing when using it.
The smaller calibers certainly benefit from the advanced bullet design in that designs like the TSX seem most at home when driven FAST.... and not many big bores can drive a heavy at 3000fps+.... and have a shooter handle the recoil. Due to this fact, I agree 100% that the difference between standard cup and core bullets and TSX's are much less dramatic when with the med/big bores than with small bores.... it really does boil down to muzzle velocity IMHO.
Am I saying there is no need for big bores.....no I am not.
What I am saying however, is that the TSX driven at high speeds from the smaller bores has really leveled the playing field.
Thanks to the 140gr TSX, I consider the 7-08 Rem the NEW 30-06... a round that will do it all.
280_ACKLEY
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stubblejumper said:Unfortunately you are not much of a challenge to debate even though you keep trying.I feel like I am poking a caged animal with a stick,and the novelty of getting you worked up is wearing off.
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You sure are a pompus asshat arent you
Now this discussion has gone into .44 Mag cartridges in rifles and cast bullets, .416's and Emer keith etc......
I feel I must make a very simple, practical comment here.
*Where* I hunt is BC.
In BC, we are not limitied to any particular terrain or distance when shooting at game. We got it all, form tight, thick cover that woud make an Eastern whitetail hunter feel claustrophobic, to wide open mountains and plains that woudl make a prairie hunter feel at home on long shots- and everyhting in between.
The most interestign aspect of this is that we in BC can encounter all these different situatins in the same day, even within the same 2-3 hours of hiking!!!!
How is the BC hunter to deal with the different situaions he may find himself in during the day? The soution is simple, unless he has a different agenda (SOme guys like to challenge themselves with a lever action and irons or use a bow or a muzzleloader etc)
If he is a guy that has no real preference, he equipts himself with a rife in the 270-300 class, with a mid range variable scope, and uses good bullets.
I truly believe that a guy that has a 30-06, a 7RM a 300 or similar, using good bulets- can do prety much ANYTHING that needs to be done in BC.
Clearly, if you are targeting bison or grizzly bears, you may want to err on the side of caution and use a bigger cartridge. But it's not necessarily neccesary.
As one very experienced BC hunter,( who has kiled about 30 moose, 30 elk and at least a few other critters) said- "I had a .375 H&H but sold it. It didn't do anything that my .300 didn't do -all the animlas went down with good bullet placement, regardless of cartridge. And the .375 was heavier and more $$ to feed."
I will say that if your usual moose/elk hunitng technique is to jump them in the timbers and give them a Texas heart shot, you *may* want to use a bigger caliber. Athough it seems that 30 cal TSX bullets seem to do that fine, too...
Bottom line is that I want a cartrige/bulet combo that can do it all, and a 7mm or a 300 with good bullets will do it. If you are losing game because you shot a moose with a .300 and good bullets, then it means you aren't hittign them where it counts.
I feel I must make a very simple, practical comment here.
*Where* I hunt is BC.
In BC, we are not limitied to any particular terrain or distance when shooting at game. We got it all, form tight, thick cover that woud make an Eastern whitetail hunter feel claustrophobic, to wide open mountains and plains that woudl make a prairie hunter feel at home on long shots- and everyhting in between.
The most interestign aspect of this is that we in BC can encounter all these different situatins in the same day, even within the same 2-3 hours of hiking!!!!
How is the BC hunter to deal with the different situaions he may find himself in during the day? The soution is simple, unless he has a different agenda (SOme guys like to challenge themselves with a lever action and irons or use a bow or a muzzleloader etc)
If he is a guy that has no real preference, he equipts himself with a rife in the 270-300 class, with a mid range variable scope, and uses good bullets.
I truly believe that a guy that has a 30-06, a 7RM a 300 or similar, using good bulets- can do prety much ANYTHING that needs to be done in BC.
Clearly, if you are targeting bison or grizzly bears, you may want to err on the side of caution and use a bigger cartridge. But it's not necessarily neccesary.
As one very experienced BC hunter,( who has kiled about 30 moose, 30 elk and at least a few other critters) said- "I had a .375 H&H but sold it. It didn't do anything that my .300 didn't do -all the animlas went down with good bullet placement, regardless of cartridge. And the .375 was heavier and more $$ to feed."
I will say that if your usual moose/elk hunitng technique is to jump them in the timbers and give them a Texas heart shot, you *may* want to use a bigger caliber. Athough it seems that 30 cal TSX bullets seem to do that fine, too...
Bottom line is that I want a cartrige/bulet combo that can do it all, and a 7mm or a 300 with good bullets will do it. If you are losing game because you shot a moose with a .300 and good bullets, then it means you aren't hittign them where it counts.
Mylerson,
Morning , yes its the 338/378. I'm actually loading 1 gr. below what the Barnes book says is max for standard X bullets. I'm finding these TSXs seem to go a little faster than the Xs. Cases have only been fired twice so can't tell what primer pockets will do. Primers are very round after fireing, going by my normal loading procedures I'd go up form there. I did fire some one grain hotter. No difference in the primer or bolt lift but groups opened slightly to 1 inch so I'm going with the lighter load. It also pushes 250 Noslers to 3100 fps with no visable pressure at all. The cool part is that with the brake on it kicks like a 300 Mag. Its now got the thread protector on and is rezeroed for hunting. Over the years I've also used the 338-06 Imp,338 Win.,338/8MM,340 WBY. I think this is about it for this bore size.
Morning , yes its the 338/378. I'm actually loading 1 gr. below what the Barnes book says is max for standard X bullets. I'm finding these TSXs seem to go a little faster than the Xs. Cases have only been fired twice so can't tell what primer pockets will do. Primers are very round after fireing, going by my normal loading procedures I'd go up form there. I did fire some one grain hotter. No difference in the primer or bolt lift but groups opened slightly to 1 inch so I'm going with the lighter load. It also pushes 250 Noslers to 3100 fps with no visable pressure at all. The cool part is that with the brake on it kicks like a 300 Mag. Its now got the thread protector on and is rezeroed for hunting. Over the years I've also used the 338-06 Imp,338 Win.,338/8MM,340 WBY. I think this is about it for this bore size.
As i said its a pussy cat with the brake. Without the brake it does come back a bit but nothing compared to full house 378s or Rigbys with 350 TSXs at 2800. Just depends what you are used to. 444Shooter if interested send me a PM and we can swap some data.
Gatehouse, I never said the I was loosing game with the .300 with 200s, I said, it wasn't doing what I wanted. Which is putting the game down to stay fast, the moose I shot with it were dead as hell, but they got up and ran in one case deeper and another luckily up onto a woodsroad before it fell over. I want to shoot them with something big enough to anchor them. To minimize their running into ugly cover where you have to carry every piece of them back out. What is giving me these results is big bullets. I know the .300 with 200s will kill them if properly placed, but it in no way anchores them like the bigger ones do. And it comes down to another factor, where I hunt shots are close and not generally long, the game is big and potentially dangerous. Big bullets can stop animals quickly, all of this still presumes good shot placement.
Big bores can fire bullets fast too. But this is where it changes from rounds like the .45/70 to rounds like the .450 and other large capacity rounds. But with this guns gets really large or recoil becomes heavy. I don't mind these factors right now as I don't really walk with my big rifles a lot and I have a lightweight big bore for when I do. Sure it kicks, but that is not a big deal for me, it's a hunter not a bench gun.
I don't like to rely on velocity for a number of reasons. Too many variables to get in the way, big bullets moving slow are easily reliable and predictable. That is my choice though, if your experiences and tastes lead you to something else, good for you. There is another factor for many of us too. It's to enjoy the rifle we hunt with. we sit and we look at it while waiting and hunting, we think about what it will or won't do. For rifle cranks there is an interest factor. My interests lay in the big guns and old ones. If a guy gets the same thoughts and joy from looking at his hot rod .257 whatever, good for you. That's why we are gunnutz.
I'm off hunting now. I'll see if my .416 does it's thing hopefully or my hunting partner's .300Wby. Regardless if we get a chance, I doubt the moose will walk off. We can talk about it all winter, time to get out and test a few now.
Big bores can fire bullets fast too. But this is where it changes from rounds like the .45/70 to rounds like the .450 and other large capacity rounds. But with this guns gets really large or recoil becomes heavy. I don't mind these factors right now as I don't really walk with my big rifles a lot and I have a lightweight big bore for when I do. Sure it kicks, but that is not a big deal for me, it's a hunter not a bench gun.
I don't like to rely on velocity for a number of reasons. Too many variables to get in the way, big bullets moving slow are easily reliable and predictable. That is my choice though, if your experiences and tastes lead you to something else, good for you. There is another factor for many of us too. It's to enjoy the rifle we hunt with. we sit and we look at it while waiting and hunting, we think about what it will or won't do. For rifle cranks there is an interest factor. My interests lay in the big guns and old ones. If a guy gets the same thoughts and joy from looking at his hot rod .257 whatever, good for you. That's why we are gunnutz.
I'm off hunting now. I'll see if my .416 does it's thing hopefully or my hunting partner's .300Wby. Regardless if we get a chance, I doubt the moose will walk off. We can talk about it all winter, time to get out and test a few now.
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Well, I can't disagree that hitting aniumals with big bullets seems to be pretty effective. I've used a 375 H&H on several bears, and they all just fall down. THUMP.
But to be honest, the bear I shot this spring made it abot 4 steps, using a 168gr TSX...
But to be honest, the bear I shot this spring made it abot 4 steps, using a 168gr TSX...
lol, yeah, this whole discussion is kinda pointless. It's easily demonstrable that they both work well, and which one is 'better' is quite unprovable
Not that this is a new debate. The O-K-H crew, Taylor et. al vs. Roy W and J. O'Connor, K. Bell and company
Not that this is a new debate. The O-K-H crew, Taylor et. al vs. Roy W and J. O'Connor, K. Bell and company
But it is a new debate.... O'Connor and the boys never had the super premiums (TSX...), and Keith based his opinions on cup + core bullets...
Things have changed, and therein lies the point... the big bore guys are still stuck in the 60's (grin).
280_ACKLEY
- Location
- Calgary, AB
I think there is a happy medium. You don't need a shoulder fired anti-tank rifle to drop a griz. A well contructed bullet, properly placed in the vitals, will do the job. I don't see the reason to require a bullet to completely penetrate a animal either. To be effective, a bullet should dump it's energy inside the animal.
280_ACKLEY said:
There is a pretty well known story of Keith and the then new 338WM in Africa.
Basically, the bullets he was using sucked. They were failing. He ended up using the 30-06 to finish his safari.
Big bullets are not necessarily perfect killers, either...
^ Well sure. I'm not advocating either one extreme. I don't believe that 'there can be only one,' nor am I particularly inclined to follow any one evangelical zealot. There is indeed a 'happy medium,' and it actually encompasses a range of caliber & bullet combinations. There's nothing 'wrong' with a TSX, nor a standard cup'n'core bullet, nor anything in between. And neither is 'superior' to the other when used appropriately.
444shooter said:
if you've ever had to follow an animal the vacated the area once hit, you might appreciate some blood on the ground. entrance wounds usually bleed little
being on my hands and knees looking for tracks in the dirt isnt what Id prefer to do.
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300 Mags
280 ACKLEY
I like big bores but certainly not stuck in the 60s. I say fast big bores useing super premium bullets, how can you argue with that. As far as recoil sure if you can't shoot the big ones use smaller ones. If you can't handle your gun it is of no use.
TOD
I like air rushing in from both sides, what do you think?
280 ACKLEY
I like big bores but certainly not stuck in the 60s. I say fast big bores useing super premium bullets, how can you argue with that. As far as recoil sure if you can't shoot the big ones use smaller ones. If you can't handle your gun it is of no use.
TOD
I like air rushing in from both sides, what do you think?
- Location
- Calgary, AB
todbartell said:I think its nana time!
2 holes, vely vely goot
Everybody now... clap those hands and sing
