300wm and 338wm
- Thread starter Alberta Bigbore
- Start date
A 185-300 gr .338 bullet works wonders on moose too. And it's also an accurate cartridge. And is much more versatile than the .300.
Based on Nosler reloading data, 300gr AB at 2400 fps MV - quite doable with my 338.
Quickload agrees
Code:
Cartridge : .338 Win Mag
Bullet : .338, 300, Nosler AccuBond 54851
Useable Case Capaci: 65.676 grain H2O = 4.264 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 62000 psi, or 427 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 103 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
19 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 85%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant RL26 103.0 67.0 4.34 2488 100.0 57879 9508 1.351 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL17 94.4 60.0 3.89 2442 100.0 62000 8444 1.327 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 99.2 62.0 4.02 2428 100.0 62000 8713 1.334 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 93.6 60.0 3.89 2422 100.0 62000 8713 1.338 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 93.6 60.0 3.89 2422 100.0 62000 8713 1.338 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828ssc 103.0 64.1 4.15 2418 98.5 56934 9450 1.359 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL19 103.0 62.4 4.04 2417 99.5 60548 9041 1.341 ! Near Maximum !
AA MagPro 103.0 66.3 4.30 2380 96.1 52881 9726 1.414
Alliant RL22 103.0 63.0 4.08 2377 99.0 53602 9326 1.408
IMR 4831 103.0 59.7 3.87 2377 100.0 60951 8082 1.364 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot BigGame 89.2 57.5 3.73 2374 100.0 62000 7871 1.348 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350 100.9 59.8 3.87 2372 99.9 62000 8280 1.342 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350 99.1 59.6 3.86 2371 99.9 62000 8259 1.342 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831sc 103.0 63.0 4.08 2367 97.9 58194 8859 1.363 ! Near Maximum !
Alberta Bigbore
CGN Regular
- Location
- Edmonton, Alberta
I wonder what the felt ft lb of recoil would be with a 338 Win mag pushing 225 gr and 250 gr partitions would be, on a Browning XBOLT Composite stalker with 26 inch barrel?
I had a 300wsm once in an xbolt and it was very very managable. Seems those stocks and pad really suck up the kick.
I had a 300wsm once in an xbolt and it was very very managable. Seems those stocks and pad really suck up the kick.
- Location
- In the shadows of the Rockies
With my 300 WM using 180gr to 200gr bullets around 3000 fps MV, recoil isn't much different than my 338 WM using 250gr bullets at 2700 fps MV.
However, with 130gr bullets at 3400 fps MV in my 300 WM recoil is noticeably lighter. My 300 WM is a Sako 85 Grey Wolf.
300 Win. Mag. Sako 85 Grey Wolf with Nikon Monarch3 4-16x42mm scope
However, with 130gr bullets at 3400 fps MV in my 300 WM recoil is noticeably lighter. My 300 WM is a Sako 85 Grey Wolf.
300 Win. Mag. Sako 85 Grey Wolf with Nikon Monarch3 4-16x42mm scope
For what it's worth, a .338 on the A-bolt stainless stalker is rather lively. The .300 WSM
is rather mild, not a lot more than a 30-06.
Alberta Bigbore
CGN Regular
- Location
- Edmonton, Alberta
So quite a bit less than my savage 210F pushing 3 inch magnum sabot slugs. Thanks
- Location
- In the shadows of the Rockies
For comparison purposes, assume 8.5 lb rifles with mounts and scopes.
Recoil speed from conservation of momentum -
30-06: 190 gr x 2600 fps / (8.5 lb x 7000 gr/lb) = 8.3 fps
338 WM: 250 gr x 2700 fps / (8.5 lb x 7000 gr/lb) = 11.3 fps
Recoil energy = 1/2 mv^2
30-06: 0.5 x 8.5 lb / 32.2 x (8.3 fps)^2 = 9.1 ft lb
338: 0.5 x 8.5 lb / 32.2 x (11.3fps)^2 = 16.9 ft lb
Yup, the 338 has 16.9/9.1 = 1.9x, or ~2x the recoil (energy) of the 30-06.
Cartridges aren't accurate. Ammo and guns are accurate. Nothing about the 300 or 338 makes one inherently more accurate than the other.
And how is a 338cal any more versatile than a 300, let alone much more versatile?
- Location
- In the shadows of the Rockies
For a medium bore rifle my preferences are 35, 9.3mm and 375 calibers. I could live without the calibers between 30 and 35 which include 8mm and 338 (which now has me thinking about a caliber change for my 338 WM Ruger Hawkeye rifle... )
)
Last edited:
Bustercluck
CGN Regular
- Location
- Fort McMurray
If you're worried about recoil u should stick to hunting squirrels and rabbits. Lol
Cartridges certainly can be considered accurate, or have design features that contribute to inherent accuracy. Why do you think competitive shooters tend to migrate to certain cartridges? For example, 22BR, 6BR, the PPC family, 6 Lapua, 6.5 Lapua, 260 Rem, 308 Win etc. Did I suggest that the .338 WM was more accurate than the 300?
As far as versatility goes, the 300 has a practical projectile weight limit of +/- 220 grains give or take. The .338 has a practical projectile weight limit of up to 300 grains. The .338 can also be loaded up with Barnes bullets as light as 160 grains. Makes it pretty versatile from 160 gr thru 300 grains. Given what the OP is asking about (large game), the .338 is most certainly more versatile than the 300.
Are you going to go hammer Ranger Dave now? He says the 300 WM is 'a very accurate round'. Better go set him straight lol.
Oh, one last thing...cartridges ARE ammo.
For comparison purposes, assume 8.5 lb rifles with mounts and scopes.
Recoil speed from conservation of momentum -
30-06: 190 gr x 2600 fps / (8.5 lb x 7000 gr/lb) = 8.3 fps
338 WM: 250 gr x 2700 fps / (8.5 lb x 7000 gr/lb) = 11.3 fps
Recoil energy = 1/2 mv^2
30-06: 0.5 x 8.5 lb / 32.2 x (8.3 fps)^2 = 9.1 ft lb
338: 0.5 x 8.5 lb / 32.2 x (11.3fps)^2 = 16.9 ft lb
Yup, the 338 has 16.9/9.1 = 1.9x, or ~2x the recoil (energy) of the 30-06.
You forgot the charge weights. They're accelerated too. Their velocity at the muzzle is harder to nail down than the bullet.
I too must take umbrage with the statement that the 338 is more versatile than the 300 WM. Nothing could be further from the truth, bullet weight range is not the only definition of versatile. The 300 WM covers a bullet weight range that qualifies it for any NA game, as does the 338 so there is no winner there. However if we now look at trajectories of available bullets and also the velocities creating these trajectories the 300 WM is way ahead of the 338. The increased velocities also allow for less wind drift and on the available energies on target the 300 wins hands down from 200 mtrs and out. As far as bullet weight range goes the 300 doesn't give up any to the 338 either, with 30 cal bullets starting around 100 grns and many varied weights right up to 240 gns.
So in my opinion the 300 doesn't give up anything as far as versatility goes and wins all categories nicely, in fact with the lightest bullets it actually allows the 300 to be a decent varmint smoker, which cannot be said of the 338. I also put little weight of what the most popular cartridges bought in Alaska seem to be, as Alaska has some quite unique game animals which are found only very sparsely and in small very isolated parts of Canada and none of the rest of NA.
If the past 100 threads about the most versatile cartridge in NA has any credibility then I would have to say the 300 is recommended about 10-1 over the 338 by hundreds of shooters on this forum. I think this speaks volumes for the superiority of the 300 WM as an extremely versatile cartridge, in fact it is one of THE most versatile cartridges for NA game and Asiatic game and African plains game and is in fact one of the most used cartridges world wide by hunters. I'm sorry but the 338 doesn't even make the top 20.........
So in my opinion the 300 doesn't give up anything as far as versatility goes and wins all categories nicely, in fact with the lightest bullets it actually allows the 300 to be a decent varmint smoker, which cannot be said of the 338. I also put little weight of what the most popular cartridges bought in Alaska seem to be, as Alaska has some quite unique game animals which are found only very sparsely and in small very isolated parts of Canada and none of the rest of NA.
If the past 100 threads about the most versatile cartridge in NA has any credibility then I would have to say the 300 is recommended about 10-1 over the 338 by hundreds of shooters on this forum. I think this speaks volumes for the superiority of the 300 WM as an extremely versatile cartridge, in fact it is one of THE most versatile cartridges for NA game and Asiatic game and African plains game and is in fact one of the most used cartridges world wide by hunters. I'm sorry but the 338 doesn't even make the top 20.........
