300wsm down loaded to 30.06
- Thread starter Tabacco Brook
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The 300 wsm is superior to the 30-06 in the same context that the 308 is (shoulder angle, powder burn efficiency) I have loaded down my 270 wsm to sub 270 win performance levels, and still managed to find some accurate loads. I find it picker about bullets than with loads. Just use lighter bullets with slower powder to keep the case filled. And, the 270 wsm and 300 wsm use the same case, so you won't be any further ahead in terms of down-Charging with the 270 (though it's my favorite round to load for)
The wsm rounds are accurate and not very picky in my experience. The 308 will naturally be easier to load down for, since it has considerably less case capacity than the wsm, but I would not give it an edge in accuracy in stock hunting rifles.
The wsm rounds are accurate and not very picky in my experience. The 308 will naturally be easier to load down for, since it has considerably less case capacity than the wsm, but I would not give it an edge in accuracy in stock hunting rifles.
Caramel I have owned several 30-06 rifles that would make very close to 3000 with a 165 grain bullet. [one actually averaged 3004 for 10 shots!.]
It just isn't possible for the 308 to equal the 30-06 if both are loaded to equal pressures. It can get reasonably close, but never surpass the '06.
As bullet weight goes up, the difference increases due to the smaller powder capacity of the 308. [longer bullet intrude on powder space more]
Regards, Dave.
Very true the 06 got the capacity... I would not argue with you as you are a very knowledgable shooter but it would like to see if a 208 Amax with R-17 would perform as good in the 06 than it does in the 308, velocity of that combo is something else, would like to compare one day... JP.
You are missing the point. Eagleye is correct. The superior case capacity of the .30-06 means it can drive any given bullet, at any given weight, faster than it can be driven from any .308 case. That is especially true as the bullet weights get heavier. There is more difference in favor of the .30-06 when using 200 grain bullets than there is when shooting 150's, and most people agree that the 220 grain .30 cal. bullets are quite inappropriate in the .308 case because of their length intruding into powder space. But no .308 can drive .30 Caliber bullets as fast as you can drive them from the .30-06 case. Just laws of physics.
I have no idea what you think makes the .308 inherently superior to the .30-06. The .308 is a find round for most North American hunting, but ballistically, there is no doubt which is superior.
is just not true.
The superiority of the 308 is not that is more powerfull, we both know the capacity of the 30-06 and i am fine with that... For me shooting the 308 is a way of life... In my book that is... I may buy 20 others 308 in the next 3 or 4 years but no 30-06 are planned... For me the 308 is the caliber i never invest enough for... JP.
And certainly, mon ami, the 308 is a fine cartridge in it's own right!
Inherently accurate, and plenty for most NA game species.
If you really like it, [obviously, lol] then you are more than welcome to own as many as you wish.
I have owned many over the years...think I bought the first one in 1962 or 63. Shot a fair bit of game with the 308.
It always performed admirably when I did my part.
But a 30-06 it is not, due to the smaller capacity. If [big if] one wants to use the 30 cal 220 grain or 240 grain bullets,
the 30-06 will still push them to fair velocities. The 308 struggles with any hunting bullet over 200 grains and any VLD over 210.
These chamberings both have their place, and their champions. The practical difference in field conditions is a moot point with bullets
of 168 grains and lighter.
Enjoy, Dave.
I'm wondering if some of the references to the '06 vs 308 have to do with the pressures they were originally loaded to. Wasn't the '06 loaded to a max of 50,000(PSI ?) and the 308 loaded to 55,000++(PSI)? Just ball park figures but if I remember correctly when the 308 was being developed the desired result was to have a cartridge capable of "06 performance and the only way was to surpass the pressures. If loaded to the same pressure then obviously the 06 wins but if loaded to the original specs the 308 comes very close, if not equal to the '06. Also, with the "theory" of accuracy, there are reasons certain cases outperform others but on a VERY, VERY, VERY small gain. Otherwise how would you explain the accuracy potential of the PPC cases? Interesting topic, interesting replies.
The PPC's and the 6mm/30 BR seem to dominate many disciplines of benchrest shooting. It seems to me to come down to case design, and in many aspects they resemble WSM cartridges. Which is why I can't understand why people to this day still bash them as a "fad", un-necessary, and without improvement on accuracy. By my user name you can probably guess that I disagree with all 3 facets.
Well, I have owned, and do own WSM chambered rifles at present. [also one SAUM]
I also own 308 Norma Mags, a 300 Win Mag and a slew of other chamberings.
To say that the WSM group are more accurate than their longer counterparts is a stretch, really.
It boils down to individual rifles far more than cartridge design.
Two of my Norma Mags will flat outshoot my 300 and 7mm short mags.
The resemblance to the BR series of cartridges is simply that....a resemblance. To hope to do with a common hunting
rifle what is done on the Benchrest is silly.
I have a sheep rifle chambered in 6mmBR. It is super light weight, with a contour 1 Shilen on it.
The action has been skeletonized and the bolt is fluted. Leupy 3-9 compact lightweight on it.
All in, it weighs about 5 lbs.
Is quite accurate, but absolutely no more so than my 6mm Remington with a Shilen contour 4 on it.
I'm not bashing the WSM's or the other short, fat cartridges here, just laying out the facts as I see them.
They are nothing magical or mythical, just good, useful chamberings that have served to breathe some
new life into the firearms fraternity...this has to be positive.
Regards, Dave.
I also own 308 Norma Mags, a 300 Win Mag and a slew of other chamberings.
To say that the WSM group are more accurate than their longer counterparts is a stretch, really.
It boils down to individual rifles far more than cartridge design.
Two of my Norma Mags will flat outshoot my 300 and 7mm short mags.
The resemblance to the BR series of cartridges is simply that....a resemblance. To hope to do with a common hunting
rifle what is done on the Benchrest is silly.
I have a sheep rifle chambered in 6mmBR. It is super light weight, with a contour 1 Shilen on it.
The action has been skeletonized and the bolt is fluted. Leupy 3-9 compact lightweight on it.
All in, it weighs about 5 lbs.
Is quite accurate, but absolutely no more so than my 6mm Remington with a Shilen contour 4 on it.
I'm not bashing the WSM's or the other short, fat cartridges here, just laying out the facts as I see them.
They are nothing magical or mythical, just good, useful chamberings that have served to breathe some
new life into the firearms fraternity...this has to be positive.
Regards, Dave.
For arguments sake (and I highly respect your opinion), why don't you see cartridges like the 30-06 or 243 win dominating any benchrest sports, is it simply because they have more volume and burn barrels out quicker, or is there something inherently more accurate about shorter stubby cases with steep shoulders as found in the PPC and BR cases?
I am not arguing at all that the rifle is significantly more important in accuracy. My experience has simply been that the WSM cartridges are very forgiving to load for in factory hunting rifles, and I'm drawing some parallelsto a sport that relies on the accuracy potential of a cartridge, since the rifles are in a nearly level playing field. From a quick search it appears also in the past 7 years that the WSM's have been responsible for more than one 1000 yard benchrest records.
http://benchrest.com/showthread.php...CORD-AT-WILLIAMSPORT-5-18-3-505-quot-10-shots
http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek071.html
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...oots-2-815-record-at-1000-yards-with-300-wsm/
Maybe this is apples and oranges when comparing benchrest to hunting rifles, again, I'm just fond of the WSM's.
I am not arguing at all that the rifle is significantly more important in accuracy. My experience has simply been that the WSM cartridges are very forgiving to load for in factory hunting rifles, and I'm drawing some parallelsto a sport that relies on the accuracy potential of a cartridge, since the rifles are in a nearly level playing field. From a quick search it appears also in the past 7 years that the WSM's have been responsible for more than one 1000 yard benchrest records.
http://benchrest.com/showthread.php...CORD-AT-WILLIAMSPORT-5-18-3-505-quot-10-shots
http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek071.html
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...oots-2-815-record-at-1000-yards-with-300-wsm/
Maybe this is apples and oranges when comparing benchrest to hunting rifles, again, I'm just fond of the WSM's.
There's only about 10% difference between the 30-06 ad 300 winmag / 300 wsm velocity. So of course you can download a 300wsm to 30-06 velocity. You're almost there before you evn started...
Good answer! I'm a 30-06 lover too. Craig Boddington said in Nosler #6, "At this writing we are in a new age of fast magnums and they are wonderful-but I seriously doubt if any of them will ever attain the lasting glory of the .30-06."
Good answer Jethunter. Mr Eagleeye, with all respect due to you, I don't think you can compare the accuracy potential of a cartridge design in a hunting rifle. Each rifle may or may not possess a certain amount of accuracy potential within it's own limits. When I talk about comparing cartridge design potential I think you'd have to use a very high quality bench rifle and have a very experienced shooter. Even then, the outcome isn't likely to be overwhelming but certainly measurable. The result MAY be 1/10" difference at 100 yards in a 10 shot group between the '06 and 308, something most of us would not be able to use. Case design must have some merit or, as I said, why would the PPC cases exist?
The shape of the combustion chamber has merit but not to the OP.
He wants a 300 WSM and wants to down load it...
Can he do it; yes.
Starting loads will pretty much put him there, whether it works or not is dependant on his particular rifle combined with his bullet and powder selection.
How this turned this into a 30/06-308 debate is quite comical...can we talk about bear defence now?
He wants a 300 WSM and wants to down load it...
Can he do it; yes.
Starting loads will pretty much put him there, whether it works or not is dependant on his particular rifle combined with his bullet and powder selection.
How this turned this into a 30/06-308 debate is quite comical...can we talk about bear defence now?
And if you re-read my post, that is exactly what I said.
As far as loading down any of the 30 cal mags, including the WSMs/RSAUMs, it can easily be done.
AAMOF, my pet "plinking/practice" load in my 308 Norma Mags has long been 180 grain Hornady IL and 50 grains of IMR3031.
Average velocity? 2705 fps sound like a 30-06 to you? Sure does to me.
Cheers, Dave.
The .308/7.62 is not superior to the 30-06, it is inherently more accurate because of its shorter case length which helps with alignment with the chamber and powder burning efficiency. This was proven with the changeover from the M1 Garand to the M14 military rifles.
Now you can call me a cheap bastard if you want, BUT with the recent shortages we have had with reloading, "WHY" would you want to fill a monster case with that much powder when it takes only half this amount for the .308/7.62?
Due to an injury at work I stopped hunting but still love to shoot, and I spend all my time with the .223/5.56 because its gas tank is small and it gets great gas milage.
So just remember this, when dealing with monsters all it takes is a head shot to bring them down and you don't need to own a powder company to do it.
The only advantage you Canadians have is the fact that Zombies freeze during the winter so you have the winter months to restock up on powder. In the lower 48 we "normally" have milder winters so a .223 loaded with 25 grains of H335 of powder gets us twice the shooting you will with a 300 WSM. (powder/gas hog)
And below for Eagleye the smartest one in the bunch.
From the "The Rifleman's Journal" http://riflemansjournal.########.com/p/articles-index.html and shooting 1000 yards with the 30-06.
Cartridges: Accuracy Secrets of the .30-06 - Part 1
http://riflemansjournal.########.com/2012/05/cartridges-accuracy-secrets-of-30-06.html
Cartridges: Accuracy Secrets of the .30-06 - Part 2
http://riflemansjournal.########.com/2012/05/cartridges-accuracy-secrets-of-30-06_10.html
Cartridges: Accuracy Secrets of the .30-06 - Part 3
http://riflemansjournal.########.com/2012/05/cartridges-accuracy-secrets-of-30-06_13.html
Cartridges: .30-06 Update
http://riflemansjournal.########.com/2011/02/cartridges-30-06-update.html
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