300wsm resizing problem ??

bbobie

bbobie

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Rifle is a Tikka 300wsm ,Dies are RCBS FL die set Group A
Problem is the shot brass slides in the chaber and I can close the bolt easily .
Now I neck sized some cases ,then I full length sized some,the bolt wouldn't close after either operation.
I turned the die down its touching the shell holder I cant go any more , the bolt will close with a bit of effort on some, others take a bit more force to close the bolt
Any ideas about what could be out of whack?
So I have been reloading for 35 yrs I have had most of the common problems ,setting the shoulder back,out of align necks etc,but I have not had a problem like this, were after the resizing the brass it wont chamber .
Any help would be much appreciated
Thanks
 
I found this description of the Group A FL Die set at the RCBS site.

"This two-die set is intended for reloading bottleneck cases, and consists of a Full-Length Sizer Die with an Expander-Decapping Unit, and a Seater Die with Bullet Seater Plug. The Full-Length Sizer Die brings the case to SAAMI minimum cartridge dimensions. It sizes the outside of the case, de-primes and expands the neck to accept the bullet. The die has vents to prevent case damage caused by trapped air and for excessive lubricant. Headspace is held to minimum tolerances to avoid changing the case body length during full length sizing.

I think what they are saying is that they are squeezing the body down to minimum SAAMI diameter. But at the same time, it appears they are leaving the length to the shoulder at the maximum SAAMI distance.

If you try to neck size only the case length at the shoulder probably grows some due to the body being squeezed down quite a bit. And if your chamber is on the short side, you may be running out of headspace, even if you do a full resize. You may have to lap down a shell holder to get the case into the die far enough to bump the shoulder.

This is a little disappointing to hear, as I have a RCBS set of dies and planned to do a partial neck resize. I may not be able to do it either.
 
I had a similar problem using 180 grain failsafe bullets. I finally figured out that the bullets were jamming into the lands. I pushed them all back about 3 thou and never had the problem again. I should note that I full length resize only. Tried the neck sizing thing and had more problems than it was worth.
 
I have read many postings about Tikka rifles having problems chambering reloaded ammunition. The common problem is these rifles have tighter chambers, meaning set closer to minimum headspace.

1. With a neck die the body of the case is not fully supported and some times during sizing at the shoulder/body junction can bulge. And this bulge can cause hard chambering from the larger diameter at the shoulder base. My Forster neck sizing and shoulder bump die will do this, and I need to apply a little lube to the case neck to prevent this problem on some types of brass.

2. When a full length resized case is hard to chamber, normally it means the case shoulder needs pushed/bumped back further. Sometimes the top of the shell holder will need to be lapped a few thousandths to allow the case to be pushed further into the die and bump the shoulder further back.

Below is a exaggerated example of full length resizing, as the case is squeezed in the die, the case becomes longer until it contacts the shoulder of the die. Sometimes when you have a tight chamber and a die on the "plus" side of tolerances the case shoulder is not pushed below the red dotted line below. And when you lap the top of the shell holder the case is pushed further into the die and the shoulder is pushed back further and then chamber properly.

shouldersetback_zpsjizx9lok.gif


I would check to see if the die is properly adjusted and making hard contact with the shell holder and the press is reaching cam over as the first step.

This is where having a Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge and a vernier caliper helps adjusting dies and solving problems.
 
bbobie said:
Great thanks guys I'll Lapp the shell holder down and see what happens. I'll up date as soon as I get it done
Thanks again
Click to expand...

All the replies here are just guesses, as posted above your bullets could be seated too long. If you crimped the bullet the crimp can cause a bulged neck. Your shell holder can be out of spec or many other things.

If you lap the shell holder mark it with a red felt tip marker and keep it away from all your other shell holders. And sometimes just buying a new shell holder will fix the problem.

Whidden custom dies are made shorter than other dies so they can be adjusted further down. There is a warning to not adjust the die all the way down to touch the shell holder or the shoulder of the case will be pushed back excessively.

Last night I was at another reloading forum and someone ruined 200 new Lapua cases with his new Whidden die because he adjusted the die to contact the shell holder.

So again this is where having good gauges helps solve problems instead of guessing.

I have lapped two shell holders and keep them away from the other shell holders. If you get them mixed up you can start having case head separations from bumping the shoulder back too far.

Be sure, be careful and be safe.
 
I had the same issue when I started reloading for my .300WSM with my RCBS dies. I set up my sizing die as usual with the shell holder touching the die with a bit of cam over. I could not close the bolt on my sized brass. Upon closer look, eventhough I had cam over, the short and stiff WSM brass would not fully size and I could still see daylight between the die and shell holder. I had to lower my die a bit more for a hard cam over and then the brass would fully resize with contact between the shell holder and die.
 
Ron AKA said:
and expands the neck to accept the bullet.
Hold up! I sold my 300WSM Tikka because of this and got a Savage instead: I got tired of having to separately de-cap the brass and then size without the ball...

The expander is expanding the neck larger than your Tikka's overly tight chamber! This is the exact clue telling me this is likely the issue:
bbobie said:
Problem is the shot brass slides in the chaber and I can close the bolt easily
Click to expand...

I bet a Timmie's Extra large if you remove the expander ball out of the die and then try it the cases will fit.

Edit: Why am I getting Deja Vu? Somehow I think I told someone of this here on CGN a couple of years ago...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Aniest said:
Hold up! I sold my 300WSM Tikka because of this and got a Savage instead: I got tired of having to separately de-cap the brass and then size without the ball...
The expander is expanding the neck larger than your Tikka's overly tight chamber! This is the exact clue telling me this is likely the issue:
.
Click to expand...

If the expander is enlarging the case neck too much then the expander is larger than bullet diameter. In that case the bullet would drop into the sized neck and you would not have any neck tension. Normally the expander should be .001 to .002 smaller in diameter for a bolt action and .003 to .004 smaller on a semi-auto.

We live in a plus and minus manufacturing world and chambers and dies can vary in size.

Example I have a Lee .223 full length die that will push the case shoulder back .009 if the die makes hard contact with the shell holder. This same die reduces the case diameter "more" than a small base die does.

The OP needs some gauges to find and "see" the problem. If he doesn't want to go to that expense then he can blacken the resized case with a felt tip marker. When he chambers this blackened case the black will rub off at the problem area.ld be anything

The OP problem could be anything, including a defective die or anything else we haven't thought of. So find the the problem "first" and then fix it and not guess.
 
bigedp51 said:
If the expander is enlarging the case neck too much then the expander is larger than bullet diameter...
Click to expand...

What I know is this: when I removed the expander the cases worked flawlessly in the Tikka I had. When I used the expander a blackened case showed almost complete removal of the blacking from the neck and the bolt had to be gently forced to load the rounds.

I can only give an option based on what I seen, felt and experienced: your points are valid and I respect them, but unscrewing an expander is a fast and simple thing that can be done to help find the issue. Every reasonable point is an option and I have not excluded any others.
 
Aniest said:
Ron AKA said:
and expands the neck to accept the bullet.
Hold up! I sold my 300WSM Tikka because of this and got a Savage instead: I got tired of having to separately de-cap the brass and then size without the ball...

The expander is expanding the neck larger than your Tikka's overly tight chamber! This is the exact clue telling me this is likely the issue:

I bet a Timmie's Extra large if you remove the expander ball out of the die and then try it the cases will fit.

Edit: Why am I getting Deja Vu? Somehow I think I told someone of this here on CGN a couple of years ago...
Click to expand...

Not sure why you are directing this to me? This is the reason I like Forster dies. You can buy the expander ball size you need. Your other option short of taking the ball out is to chuck the assembly in a drill and polish down the expander ball with some oil and 400 wet/dry sandpaper. Generally you will get a good neck fit by using a ball 0.001" smaller than the nominal caliber.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
I agree with others that you either chuck up the expander and mill it down by 1-2 thou which I have done in the past and works great.

Or remove the expander all together which I've been doing for the last couple of years with great success and less than a thou case neck runout.
 
im using some Lyman ultra fine dry case lube on the neck so I can see how far down it is sizing the neck,any ways I went a little bit at a time checking to see how the cases would chamber
I got to were the shell holder was contacting the die it was still hard to chamber
I know this will cause shoulder set back ,and headspace problems which leads to case separation.
I have had 4 Tikkas and more rifles in other brands, and never had this problem with any of them
so now is it the dies not rezing it down for a oversized chamber?maybe a set of small base dies would work ,say some thing that's used for semi autos?
 
you need something along the lines of a hornady case length gauge or your just chasing your tail, I am willing to bet though that another almost quarter turn down on your die will solve the issue. I have run into this sort of issue with shell holders, they are not all created equal and some have higher ears that don't allow the case to enter the die far enough. I measure both the case web diameter of a fired case and a sized case as well as the base to shoulder length measurement, not all rifles are created equal and loading for 2 different rifles of the same caliber has resulted in different die settings to get brass to work efficiently in both rifles, downside is for brass life I cannot use full length sized brass from one rifle in the other........
 
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