300wsm vs 300wm?
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I have a 300WSM in a Savage model 16. A great hunting rifle for the money. I also have a Remington 700 Police in 300WM. The 700 is for benchrest and longer range target use. I didn't buy them neccessarily because of their calibers(300WSM vs 300WM), rather they were purchased for their specific intended uses. The differences between them ballistically is nill. Velocity edges are smaller than an extreme spread from any given group of 3 or 5. Any savings in powder could be offset by the price of the powder used. Obviously I reload - don't know if there is a diifference in cost for factory ammo.
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They both produce nearly identical velocities with the same bullets, so one isn't really going to shoot flatter than the other. Flat shooting just means that the cartridge produces a high muzzle velocity and the projectile has a high ballistic coefficient, so gravity has less time to work on it before it reaches it's target.
The major difference is the cartridge overall length, the .300WSM fits in a short action while the .300 WinMag needs a long action. Because of this the .300WSM has a fatter case, necessary to allow a case capacity similar to the .300 WinMag, which produces more consistent burn rates, so the .300WSM has slightly more accuracy potential. The second design difference is that the .300 WinMag is a belted cartridge whereas the .300WSM is not. This doesn't really make much of a practical difference though.
Basically, with either of these cartridges you'll be pushing the same projectiles as you do now with your .308, just at higher velocities. As such the benefits of these cartridges will show more at extended ranges (1000M+).
As for hunting, there's not much in North America that a .308 wouldn't be suitable for, you'll just be carrying a heavier rifle that won't necessarily grab you any more game.
The major difference is the cartridge overall length, the .300WSM fits in a short action while the .300 WinMag needs a long action. Because of this the .300WSM has a fatter case, necessary to allow a case capacity similar to the .300 WinMag, which produces more consistent burn rates, so the .300WSM has slightly more accuracy potential. The second design difference is that the .300 WinMag is a belted cartridge whereas the .300WSM is not. This doesn't really make much of a practical difference though.
Basically, with either of these cartridges you'll be pushing the same projectiles as you do now with your .308, just at higher velocities. As such the benefits of these cartridges will show more at extended ranges (1000M+).
As for hunting, there's not much in North America that a .308 wouldn't be suitable for, you'll just be carrying a heavier rifle that won't necessarily grab you any more game.
thx that helps alot! the reason i want another rifle is because my .308 is a 700 vls with a 26'' heavy barrel, i love it and it shoots great but its a pain to carrie around and want to make it my target gun, you know just another excuse to buy a newused rifle! that being said what would you guys get as a hunting rifle in whatever caliber you think is best? and i reload also!
There are a lot of great calibers out there for the reloader, however, for a hunting rifle it's hard to beat those tried and trusted calibers that can be found in the ammunition showcase at your local store. For example, for whatever reason you don't have any rounds made up of your trusted load and a last minute hunting experience presents itself = buy a box of 20 at Canadian Tire.
There's a reason why calibers like 375 h&h are still a "go to" round in places like Africa after 100 years of service, even though calibers like 375 ruger seem to oust it. That reason is because if your bullets get lost with the luggage on that once in a lifetime trip is happening, you can buy 375 h&h locally.
Unless I already had at least a few of these standard calibers, e.g. 270 win, 308 win, 30-06, 300 win mag, then I would never even bother with anything else. I have heard lots of people say if they could only have 1 rifle it would be in 30-06, others will say that 300 win mag can kill anything in North America (I am going to find out this winter on a bison). Regardless of which of these old classics you decide on, it's hard to go wrong - that's my philosophy (for what it's worth).
I am not a fan of the short magnums, I have noticed that ammunition is not available "everywhere", and the performance is negligible in a hunting round as stated earlier. I believe that magazine capacity is limited by 1 round compared to their full length counterparts and the advantage of having a shorted bolt throw in the short action vs a long action is no great achievement in my world. The WSM use slightly less powder, but that's really splitting hairs to factor that into a purchasing decision. The belted case on the 300 win mag controls the headspace on initial firing but if you neck size after that on fired brass the headspace changes to the shoulder. I am sure the WSM have a great following, however, and I stand to be corrected on my comparison as I am by no means any kind of subject manner expert. Good luck with your selection.
I have found accuracy to be extremely finicky so far with the two WSM rifles I have owned. (sold them after trying 4 powder/5 bullet/2 primer/2 brass combinations, and finding nothing that really broke 1.25")
I have owned several 300wm (and still own one that is my main rifle for non-claw animals) . I always found 300wm to be easier to load for, usually finding a sweet load within 5 or less "increments" or powder in my load development. Pretty much any combination of bullet/slow powder will work well, plus I can shoot the bigger bullets faster in the 300wm. (180's and 200 gr accubonds that are so good in my gun).
Factory ammo is far more available if you don't reload. The only wsm ammo I almost ever see is the Winchester stuff, and it shot like shyte in my guns. The wsm brass is harder to resize I find. Takes more "oomph" to really get it to move at all in the die. Your results will vary of course from mine, with your equipment and application. Either gun will kill all the game you can get using airmiles.
I have owned several 300wm (and still own one that is my main rifle for non-claw animals) . I always found 300wm to be easier to load for, usually finding a sweet load within 5 or less "increments" or powder in my load development. Pretty much any combination of bullet/slow powder will work well, plus I can shoot the bigger bullets faster in the 300wm. (180's and 200 gr accubonds that are so good in my gun).
Factory ammo is far more available if you don't reload. The only wsm ammo I almost ever see is the Winchester stuff, and it shot like shyte in my guns. The wsm brass is harder to resize I find. Takes more "oomph" to really get it to move at all in the die. Your results will vary of course from mine, with your equipment and application. Either gun will kill all the game you can get using airmiles.
More or less the same performance levels, until you get to the heavies. 210,230 grain bullets would rob the Wsm way more of fuel room. Yes the Win Mag has a short neck, but it simply has more fuel room for potential performance.
My 300 shoots the 210 and 230's very well outpast 1000 yards.
I would think the WSM would be just behind it in performance.
My 300 shoots the 210 and 230's very well outpast 1000 yards.
I would think the WSM would be just behind it in performance.
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^ Good point. The only way to counter that with a WSM would be to cut longer throats in a custom barrel, and seat them out further. Unfortunately, with the SA rifles, you are limited heavily by magazine space (I think the longest allowable on a 700 would be with AI-style DBM mags, which some can go out to 2.970)
I completely disagree, the 270 WSM is a fantastic cartridge, and has re-ignited bullet-making in the 270 caliber. It didn't place a redundant magnum cartridge in an already covered caliber like the 7mm and 300, or under-perform like the 325 WSM. IMO it is a great middle-range caliber, large enough for any NA game, and yet small enough for practical varminting and everything in-between. Nosler has just released a 150 Gr Accubond LR, and it will launch a 165 Gr .650 (real-world) BC pill at ~3,000 FPS. Not to mention it is VERY forgiving to load for, once you find a bullet and powder that it likes. Charge weight does not seem to affect accuracy greatly, and this is with a bone-stock sporter. I have been so impressed that I am building a custom 700 in 270 WSM.
As for 300 WSM vs 300 Win, I like the fact that the WSM has a steeper shoulder (35* vs 25*) and is beltless, but you aren't gaining any performance out of it, and it's more expensive for brass (or loaded rounds if you don't reload). If you decide to buy into the whole shorter means more rigid action and more efficient burning of powder, that would be a positive I guess, practically I don't think it matters though unless you're shooting benchrest.
I completely disagree, the 270 WSM is a fantastic cartridge, and has re-ignited bullet-making in the 270 caliber. It didn't place a redundant magnum cartridge in an already covered caliber like the 7mm and 300, or under-perform like the 325 WSM. IMO it is a great middle-range caliber, large enough for any NA game, and yet small enough for practical varminting and everything in-between. Nosler has just released a 150 Gr Accubond LR, and it will launch a 165 Gr .650 (real-world) BC pill at ~3,000 FPS. Not to mention it is VERY forgiving to load for, once you find a bullet and powder that it likes. Charge weight does not seem to affect accuracy greatly, and this is with a bone-stock sporter. I have been so impressed that I am building a custom 700 in 270 WSM.
As for 300 WSM vs 300 Win, I like the fact that the WSM has a steeper shoulder (35* vs 25*) and is beltless, but you aren't gaining any performance out of it, and it's more expensive for brass (or loaded rounds if you don't reload). If you decide to buy into the whole shorter means more rigid action and more efficient burning of powder, that would be a positive I guess, practically I don't think it matters though unless you're shooting benchrest.
WSM is much more expensive and harder to find brass for than WM. Performance is so close you probably won't notice a difference.
The only advantage I can see is that the WSM can fit in a rifle with a shorter action.
Is it worth the extra cost?
The only advantage I can see is that the WSM can fit in a rifle with a shorter action.
Is it worth the extra cost?
I don't think you need to worry about the brass fire forming in the last 3mm of the cartridge base. The neck, shoulder and body will form nicely.
I guess you don't reload your own ammo, if you did you would know that belted brass is a pain in the a$$.
Innovative Technologies did come out with a nice little tool for getting rid of the belt bulge but who wants to resize their brass twice, especially when all you want to size is the neck.
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wsm's calibers are '''overbore''' cartriges. on top of being barrel burners , accuracy isn't top notch. of course reducing the aol and increasing the round's circumference for the same bullet weight has a rocket effect ,maybe 300 fps added, but doesn't do much for accuracy . quite the opposite.
^How many barrels have you worn out in a WSM cartridge? 
The 300 WSM has less case capacity than the 300 WM. There is no 'rocket effect' (what does that even mean, because it's shaped like a rocket? Lol), it's about the same velocity until you get into the heavier bullets (<200 Gr) where the Win Mag pulls away from it. I can't understand how less case capacity and the same or less velocity would burn a barrel out any faster than a 300 Win Mag.
My experience is that the WSM's are at least as accurate than their counterparts (in my case 270) in a factory rifle, and I attribute that to the steeper shoulders and compact powder column. All the AI wildcat cartridges fireform to steeper shoulders. Mainly to increase case capacity, but I feel that it helps accuracy as well. Biggest case in point, look at the 6mm BR round that dominates many benchrest disciplines, where they have the option to shoot nearly any cartridge:
Short, stubby, over-bore, steep shoulders. Hmm... this design couldn't be inherently accurate, could it? Personally, I would stack my factory sporter 270 WSM against any factory 270 win, and if I owned a 300 WSM, I would do the same. Does that mean it's a better choice for a typical hunter? Not necessarily..
The 300 WSM has less case capacity than the 300 WM. There is no 'rocket effect' (what does that even mean, because it's shaped like a rocket? Lol), it's about the same velocity until you get into the heavier bullets (<200 Gr) where the Win Mag pulls away from it. I can't understand how less case capacity and the same or less velocity would burn a barrel out any faster than a 300 Win Mag.My experience is that the WSM's are at least as accurate than their counterparts (in my case 270) in a factory rifle, and I attribute that to the steeper shoulders and compact powder column. All the AI wildcat cartridges fireform to steeper shoulders. Mainly to increase case capacity, but I feel that it helps accuracy as well. Biggest case in point, look at the 6mm BR round that dominates many benchrest disciplines, where they have the option to shoot nearly any cartridge:
Short, stubby, over-bore, steep shoulders. Hmm... this design couldn't be inherently accurate, could it? Personally, I would stack my factory sporter 270 WSM against any factory 270 win, and if I owned a 300 WSM, I would do the same. Does that mean it's a better choice for a typical hunter? Not necessarily..
The same as any other cartridge.
