303 174RN and 4064

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hobophobe

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To my suprise, at 40.5 grains. (Hxp brass and a p14) velocity is 2200fps. Trying to atleast hit 2400 for moose load. I did shoot a few worked up to 42 grains with no pressure signs and got 2383 fps. Don't want to go anymore than that.

Anyone suggest a better powder?
I have a tin of hybrid 100v I may try and work up for.

Edit. Barrel has only been shortened an inch
 
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Was a claim at one time that IMR 3031 powder was developed specifically for the 303 British cartridge - 174 grains would have been pretty standard bullet weight - I never tried that combination.

Looking in Hornady 9th Reloading Manual, they show H414 as the highest velocity for 303 British 174 grain. Their notes say they used 25 1/4" Lee Enfield Mark II and Hornady/Frontier brass, Winchester WLR primers for their testing. FYI - in the Hornady book, they list Maximum Load for 174 grain bullets and IMR 4064 powder at 39.3 grains, for 2400 fps - you are past that, a ways, but not getting the velocity they list - could be many reasons for that - bore condition or dimensions, brass capacity, type of primer used. I have a number of P14 rifles here - I think their original barrel was circa 26" - if an inch has been cut off of yours, you are probably similar to the No. 4 Lee Enfield rifle? Is a good chance, in the past, the WWI P14 may have been fired with corrosive primed ammo, or with cupro-nickel jacketed bullets - either were known to cause issues in the bore.

Not sure a moose will know a difference - will it be at 45 yards or 225 yards? Huge difference in impact velocity, depending on distance of shot taken.
 
Bore looks quite good on it. All the p14s i have had always seem to have good rifling.

Fed 219 primer, hxp brass trimmed to 2.219. Bullets seated just above hornadys Cannelure and a light crimp with fcd.

Wanted some more velocity for those longer shots. No reason not to see 2400 in a p14.

Ill break out the chrono when I can and try these hybrid 100v loads.

Wish I still had some imr4895. It seemed to get me more speed below the max. 2350 and I still had a couple grains to go.
 
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If you've got those kind of numbers, depending on the temperature you were firing at, my guess would be that you have a very large bore, resulting in a lot of gas blow-by, combined with non-temperature stable powder.

QL suggests, [0 C, 25" bbl. (an uncut P-14 barrel is 26"), COAL 3.075" (QL's default setting for that bullet in that cartridge; personally I'd seat it deeper as at that COAL you've only got 0.273" seating depth; I like to seat to at least 1 calibre) , 56.0 grs. case capacity, 0.314" groove diameter, which is the default groove diameter] 2,380 fps for 40.5 grs. IMR4064 (I presume you're using IMR 4064 & not Accurate 4064 & that your 4064 is relatively new & was stored properly), 2,463 fps for 42.0 grs.

If, however, you change the barrel length to 24.0", the groove diameter to 0.316" & the firing temperature to 0 F [ie. -18 C], your 40.5 grs. yields 2,303 fps, while the 42.0 gr. load shows 2,386; the same as what you got. I'm not sure why your 40.5 gr. load was so low.

If you want to post your actual numbers for your rifle & load, I can do some more adjustments & report on them.
 
For a lot of years, my go-to powder in the .303, as well as a bunch of other cartridges, has been Alliant Reloder 15 [and before that IMR4320]. Between 41.5 grs. & 42.0 grs., as the individual rifle preferred, although way more than half preferred the 42.0 gr. load.

In 17 different rifles, albeit not a P-14 [Lee Speeds, Parker-Hale, Churchill, Globe and Cogswell & Harrison sporterized #1 Mk. III's, but 2 Ruger #1A's are also included, as well as a custom Siamese Mauser with a Parker-Hale barrel], with barrels from 18.5" to 27", shooting in +23.0 to +28.0 C temperatures, with Hornady 174 gr. RNSP-IL, 180 gr. Remington SPCL's, Western 180 gr. RNSP, Winchester 180 gr. ST & PPT, Sierra 180 gr. SPT Pro-Hunter, Speer 180 gr. RN, Speer 175 gr. SP 0.314" diameter bullets designed for the 7.65x53 Belgian Mauser, Lapua 174 gr. SPT, Norma 180 gr. SPT & Boolitcaster 174 gr. Bonded SPT, the 41.5 gr. results were from 2,350 fps to 2,453 [interestingly enough, the shortest barrel did not yield the lowest results, but that barrel had very tight lands & grooves]. The 42.0 gr. loads yielded results from 2,367 to 2,523.
 
I'm getting 2400+fps with a 174RN and BL-C(2) powder. That's from a Jungle Carbine so you'd see more velocity than that. I'm pretty sure the load is off Hodgdon's site.
 
Just ran my 100v loads through. 43.8grn got me 2214. Try a bit more, but the ole case is gettin full. Hogdon claims 46.8 is max. 45 would be getting pretty full.

Try and work up a few more.
 
Purely wild guess here - what kind of brass did Hodgdon use (Remington - commercial, I presume), versus what kind are you using (milsurp Greek HXP?) - might go a ways to explain the "fullness" thing. Cases won't all be the same - brand to brand, previously fired or not, etc. All fired in same rifle chamber - at some point one would think it would "even out" although typical milsurp brass is usually thicker walls than commercial brass, and thicker heads on the cases - usually had to work reliably in machine guns.

What type of primers did they use (Federal 210 Match), versus what type are you using - might go to difference in "power" delivered from same load of powder.

You are reporting on bullet weight, grains of powder and barrel length - these are important, but they are not the only things that cause velocity results.
 
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Hxp is very thick brass! I loaded up to 45.5 grains. 2340fps. Thats pretty much right under the bullet. Easy bolt lift and extraction, primer looks ok. Max load i have seen is 46.5 or so. Probably stop where I am with 100v.

My load data uses the same primers, but REM cases.
 
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My Hodgdon data sheet says 46.5gr Varget = 2509fps.
48.0C H4350= 2517fps
46.5gr BL-C(2) = 2616fps
39.5gr H335 = 2503fps

Check them out.
 
In an article I read years ago Re15 was the only powder the author got close to the velocity he was trying to get with 174gr bullets to duplicate military rounds. Reloader powders are impossible to find in Canada now so this may be of no help to the original poster
 
I wouldn’t worry so much about speed I’d work a load up that shoots accurately out of your gun and go hunting. Those hornady s should expand even at lower velocity’s.
 
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