303-35 query

C

Con

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Gents,
First posting on this forum so G'day from Australia. A mate and I have developed a hankering to build 303-35s, his on an already sporterised SMLE action, mine on an already sporterised No4 or P14 (preference is the P14) when I find one. Given that you Canadians have an equally rich history of wildcatting the 303British, does anyone have any first-hand experience with this cartridge or even any anecdotal reports? Interested in what velocity could be achieved with a 250gr projectile.
Also any hints or ideas on how we might be able to get away reloading the cartridges without custom dies? We both have 303British dies and 358Win and 35Whelen dies at our disposal. I thought perhaps we could seat projectiles using our existing dies and maybe order a full-length resizer from the 'smith that cuts the chambers? All suggestions appreciated.
Cheers...
Con
 
welcome to the site


I cant really help ya out but I'd assume velocity of a 35-303 would be about a hundred fps less than a 358 Winchester. So that would be about 2200 fps w/ a 250 gr. :?:
 
Take a look at the 35 Lever power.
It's a 303 turned down to 30-30 length, and blown out to 35cal.
Ackley lists Max at 46 grains of 3031 giving 2600fps under a 200 grain bullet.
16" twist barrel
Tested in a '94 Winchester, an SMLE should handle it with ease.

I think that load should be perfectly safe if you did the same thing without turning down the case. Probably need more powder to achieve the same velocity.
 
John Y,
At this stage it will be a basic 303 configuration opened to .35 caliber. I'm desperately trying to avoid the need for custom reamers/dies (ie $$$$) and the 'smith I've spoken with can do the .35 on the basic case quite easily. I'll have another chat with him later in the year (planning to start building February 2006) as I believe he may also have a reamer for a straighter walled 303 case (less taper) which I may asked be used if I can find a P14. Plan at this stage is to do whatever is easiest to ensure reliable feed and continued use of the stripper clips. If I'm forced to use a No4 or SMLE action, then I'll be building a 10shot .35 cal in "Jungle carbine" style. If I find a P14, I'm prepared to spend more for a proper sporter-styled rifle and push for an improved case and any velocity gains I can get. If I can approach 2150fps with a 250gr projectile in a SMLE or No4 I'll be absolutely ecstatic! The P14 I'll want to match the 358Win, and both should be achievable.

Sorry... no idea what the dimensions of the Epps line where/are like, feel free to elaborate. Interesting that you mentioned the "35 Lever Power" as a few years back I read of a rifle over here stamped 30-30WCF that was chambered for a 30/30 length 303 case using a .30 cal projectile. The 35 Lever Power sounds like the same thing but in 35cal.
Cheers...
Con
 
As far as the dies go, when I first had my 338-06 built I was using 338 win mag dies to resize the neck and seat the bullets. The accuracy improved when I broke down and bought the correct dies. I went from 2" groups to sub moa. It may not be the case for you though, hard to say.
Have you tried looking at dies from Lee? Don't know if you can get dies for that caliber but I am sure they'd make them for you.
 
C-H is another possible source for custom dies. They already make a lot, and a .35/303 shouldn't be too hard.

BTW, Epps did make a few rifles in .35 Epps, so the current owners of his shop may have the dies still.
 
While not a 303 cat the old 35 winchester is as close to what you are trying to build as you can come.And brass is still being made in Aussy land .

Rich
 
The cost in most of this is the new barrel or reboring. Elwood Epps (Ontario, Canada gunsmith) did a number of neck downs, neck ups, improved cases, etc. etc. His experience was that a #4 barrel could not be rebored above 338 but a P14 barrel could be rebored to 35 calibre. Usually the cost of reboring approaches a new barrel. One thing to bear in mind with improved cases (I have a 303 Epps in a P14) is that you often lose magazine capacity- the straighter improved cases often will not feed when the mag is full. My quick advice is to rechamber the #4 to 303 Epps and use 200 grn bullets and simply put a new 35 whelen or 358 Norma mag barrel on the P14 if you are looking for something different. Also note if you have a P14 some persons have had good luck by rechambering to 300 Win mag and keeping the 303 barrel- some magazine mods are required but nothing extreme.
 
hiredgun,
Your right, most of the cost of this project will be in the barrel/chambering/fitting. I'm now more inclined to build on a SMLE action, as part of me wants to create a rifle in the spirit of the 1930's-50's when most of these conversions were getting around in Australia. Sporterised and scoped SMLEs can be picked up for between $50 to $100, another $450 for barrel/fit/chamber and your into a 10shot .35 cal, throw another $150 its way and you've fitted a synthetic stock. Should be sweet in the scrub chasing our large deer.
Cheers...
Con
 
hiredgun mentioned the difficulty in getting a full mag to feed, and that was my experience too. Mag mods can be expensive I understand.
Any mag designed to feed the tappered 303br cartridge is going to have trouble with a straighter walled cartridge. The problem I had, was that after about three rounds were loaded in the mag, the bolt would not pick up the rim of the case in the mag. That was with a Ross, that had a single stack mag, it's likely a bit different (you may get a few more rounds in) with the double stacked mags. The problem seemed to me to be that the straighter walled case is pushing the follower down more evenly, and not pushing the rim up high enough for the bolt to catch. I screwed around building up the follower, but that used up mag capacity too, and I ended up with a three shot. (and that was iffy).
I always wondered if building one with an Ishapore type mag would have helped.
 
Noel said:
Ron Smith does rebore jobs for $260! At least he did last year.
Click to expand...

You might want to look for Ishapore 2A1 bottom metal and a 2A1 magazine to adapt to the SMLE as it's 12 round capacity will likely shorten to 10 rounds nicely using .35 casings.

If it were me though, I'd forget using an SMLE action and get something better suited to custom work. Frankly you'll NEVER be able to sell it for anything close to the money it will cost to build a custom on a "smelly".
 
I had a 35 - .303 on a P14 for a number of years that i used for a cast bullet bench rest rifle. If I'm not mistaken, my gunsmith made the chamber by using a 303 reamer then following it with a .35 remington reamer.

It functioned well, and the fired brass showed no sign of the double reaming process.

It shot groups down to about .7" for 5 shots @100yds with 250 gr cast bullets. I never fired a jacketted bullet out of it, so can't speak to that. Some of my cast loads exceeded 2000 fps slightly with no pressure signs at all.

I used a 350 rem mag die to neck size up 303 brass, fire formed it with a light load of unique, then used the same die to neck size.

I gave it up and rebarrelled and rechambered to .30 - 30 because I hoped for better accuracy, benchrest being basically an unhappy business. A better barrel on the same action in 30 - 30 has improved groups, but their averages are only slightly better.

If I was to do it again with the same goals in mind, I'd try the 30 - 40 Krag case for it's longer neck.

For a hunting rifle, I don't see anything wrong with the 35 - 303. It should very close to equal a .358 Winchester, especially in a good strong action like the P14.

An earlier respondent was right when he said that it's very close to 35 winchester.

Anyway, best of luck and let us know how you do.

Grouch
 
The british made a cartridge called the .375 flanged that was available in Lee Metfords and Lee enfields, made by BSA. I t was basically a slightly lengthend .303 britsh necked up to .375. It even used .303 brit. stripper clips.
 
Epps has a 35-303 advertised in a M10 Ross sporter.This makes me wonder as factory Ross sporters were chambered in 35 WCF.Does anybody live close enough to go check it out?
Rich
 
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