Uhhhhhhhhh ............. I don't think so.
I have a No4 Mk2 and its a fine rifle to be sure but modern, military derived rifles are far superior in every manner. Even the M14 I had was superior to a LE in every way.
303 brit ammo getting harder to find
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Uhhhhhhhhh ............. I don't think so.
I have a No4 Mk2 and its a fine rifle to be sure but modern, military derived rifles are far superior in every manner. Even the M14 I had was superior to a LE in every way.
Better in what terms?
LEs are hardly known for their accuracy potential.
They were issued with broken case extractors because headspace was always an issue. No modern rifle requires a supply of headspace altering bolt head lengths.
The rear locking lugs on the LE are an issue in a number of ways. The biggest being that the action cannot handle higher pressure, larger, longer range cartridges, like both the Rem700 and Mauser 98 can.
The only thing the LE is actually good at is swallowing all kind of iffy quality ammo made to all kinds of different standards, while slathered in dirt. Thats fine, the thing will go BANG when needed.
That's right.
In Stalingrad, when the German 6th Army was surrounded by Chechens and Ukrainians getting smashed, the K98k would not work so well in minus 40. The lubricant was freezing and gumming up the firing pin.
You know how machines are in the winter. They suck.
The Soviets had Mosin Nagants and they mixed gasoline with motor oil to keep them going. The Germans tried using Mix as well. It worked a bit. But not great.
The Lee Enfield works well in Arctic or Sub Arctic conditions.
Great for snowstorms when Choppers and Thermals don't work well. Hug the enemy and go bang. Lee Enfield is a great weapon of war.
Well, that would be a lubrication problem, not a rifle problem. I'm sure a 98K run dry, would work fine. I have used an Israeli 308 converted 98K as a coyote rifle at -20C and it never missed a beat.
I went through Battle School in winter in Shilo MB and our C7's worked just fine as long as they were kept dry (no oil). The AR15 / M16 / C7 is also a great military rifle. It is very reliable and way more accurate than a LE.
Once again, to avoid the predictable butt-hurt feelings, I own a very nice No4 Mk2 and I quite like it. I'm not a LE hater.
Some of us here actually shoot the Lee Enfields out to 1,000 and I can tell you for certain that a .311 bullet weighing 123 grains will not make it accurately out that far . A person is far better just to load an appropriate amount of 4895 and a PROPER bullet designed to shoot that far .
As far as accuracy, strength aond reliability goes , the 1917 and P14 are far better than the Lee Enfield.
Just the vast number of dangerous game cartridges loaded in them is testament to that .
Cat
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This is a good point. I have shot a lot of 125gr 308 bullets out of my 308. I found that they can maintain reasonable accuracy out to about 700 yds but fall flat on their face at 800 yds. No way would those bullets be of any use at 1000 yds.
All things being equal, such as mean diameter bores, good quality ammo, proper bedding etc, the Lee Enfield will hold its own against anything you mentioned that are either off the shelf or issued rifles.
The M16 was hated by troops in Viet Nam, when it was first issued. It had teething problems that got troops killed, such as jamming when least needed, poor extraction, etc. Those issue were overcome and a fine platform came about that was utterly reliable and accurate, even with issue ammo.
As for the strength of the 303 Brit???? I've seen them rebarreled to 308Win, one of which I just finished yesterday, 243 Win, 225Win, 7.62x54r, 7.65x53, 7x57 and Turkey, maybe others, converted many of them to Frankenmausers, chambered for the 8x57 and 7.65x53.
Others have converted them to 223rem and 220 Swift etc.
As said, everything being equal, the design, even with period metals will hold its own against most modern firearms and in some cases, it may even be better in contentious issues.
India made up No1 rifles, supposedly of inferior strength to the No4, chambered for the 7.62x51 Nato and issued them for a couple of decades.
The only real issue with Lee Enfields is the way they are bedded, but even that can be overcome with a bit of effort.
If you read up on the early teething problems of the M16, you'll find that was related to the ammunition, which was the result of a choice made by the US army, which Stoner / Armalite told them not to do. But, the army, knowing better than the gun designer, ignored their advice and ended up with an unreliable weapon due to the ammo. The M16 itself has always been fine.
The Rem 700, to pick a single platform, is capable of withstanding the pressures generated by massive, large caliber magnum cartridges like 338 Edge and 338 Lapua. The max cartridge a LE can live with is only midrange in the cartridge range the Rem 700 can withstand.
If one were to compare apples to apples and use bone stock LE vs a bone stock Rem 700, the modern rifle would flatten the old LE in pretty much every parameter.
If we are going to bed the LE to maximize its accuracy potential then we have to consider a bedded Rem 700. I am currently in the process of having a LE No4 rifle bedded and it is specialized work and fricken expensive in comparison. Once again the modern rifle is better and easier to deal with. I have a Savage Precision Carbine that uses a goofy Accustock, which happens to work really well. I've shot several thousands of rounds through that rifle and it continues to be boringly accurate, putting 5 rounds into 5/8" all day, every day and I never paid a dime for bedding. No LE on the planet is gonna produce accuracy like that. Modern rifle = better.
That is interesting , because I have never considered a bedding job ( the preferred center bedding method) any more expensive than bedding a conventional one piece stock.
Lee Enfields can be made super accurate , but it involves a barrel change right off the bat.
Cat
IDCAY - The Lee Enfield was designed as a battle rifle, not an accuracy platform, so why are you comparing it to a sporting rifle like the Rem 700? As a battle rifle the LE was/is extremely "fit for purpose" - moreso than most other military rifles.
- the rear locking lugs eliminate the complicated machining needed for the Mauser style design.
- changeable bolt heads simplified manufacturing, and simplified swapping of bolts, etc in service.
- the case failures were mostly a consequence of oversize chambers and poor ammo tolerances. Oversize chambers were considered a necessary evil due to deal with poor ammo and mud/debris entering the chamber on the battlefield.
- with the advent of NDT in the mid 20th century, actions and bolts were surveyed for integrity and used for higher pressure cartridges. Considering the design was never intended to be used with ammo other than 303, this is impressive.
- half ####, silent cocking, 10 round mag, slick smooth action, etc etc.
- the rear locking lugs eliminate the complicated machining needed for the Mauser style design.
- changeable bolt heads simplified manufacturing, and simplified swapping of bolts, etc in service.
- the case failures were mostly a consequence of oversize chambers and poor ammo tolerances. Oversize chambers were considered a necessary evil due to deal with poor ammo and mud/debris entering the chamber on the battlefield.
- with the advent of NDT in the mid 20th century, actions and bolts were surveyed for integrity and used for higher pressure cartridges. Considering the design was never intended to be used with ammo other than 303, this is impressive.
- half ####, silent cocking, 10 round mag, slick smooth action, etc etc.
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P.O Ackley tried to blow one up, the action sprung instead of letting go.
I have seen lots of modern actions broken. Blown up, etc, surprisingly I just realized I have never seen a Lee Enfield action blown!
Cat
If I can remember correctly (sorry, getting older), there was no single, documented case of the LE action blowing up in the history of the British military leading up to the WW2. There were other issues (they used to document a lot back in the days), but no catastrophic failure. Perhaps it’s not related to the rifle no 4 (for obvious reason), but I thought it was worth to mention. As the rifles are getting older, the powders are changing and the mileage is increasing, the situation may be changing, but there was nothing wrong with that action to start with.
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yes I watched that video.
Blowing up an enfield is not as easy as they thought it would be.
I have 3 enfields chambered in 7.62x51 / 308 Win, DCRA, 2A, and one that Bubba did and I don't worry about shooting them. (note it is really a 2A not a 2A1)
as for the 303 ammo shortage, there is a shortage of everything, so reload if you got supplies, and if you don't then remember that you need to stock up when supplies become available.
and help out your buddies if they need ammo, and if your buddies help you out don't forget to pay it back.
You playing around in a balmy minus 20 is quite different from running away 24/7 from people and machines trying to get you in minus 40. Sleeping with K98k? Not sleeping with it?
Gotta keep it close in case you get rushed by 500 dudes on skis in a storm.
Why did the K98s fail in the extremes? With and without lubricants? With mix?
Condensation from human breath after firing 100 rounds?
Blood stuck on it? Other things stuck to it?
How do you clean a Mauser action in Minus 40? Do you even try?
What if you have fired 1000 shots?
Should you try then?
Don't know. Wasn't there in 1943. Sounds like it went badly.
I 100% agree.
An earlier poster claimed the LE was as good or better than modern rifles and could do everything a modern rifle could do. I have simply refuted that nonsense.
As I have said several times, I own a No4 LE and quite like it. Its an interesting and anachronistic piece of history and it is fun to shoot. Ballistically the 303 is pretty close to the 308W and the rifle itself is capable of reasonable accuracy. Yes, the LE and the 303 have killed lots of people and animals in its ca. 110 year history. However time, technology and design have surpassed the LE. We need to accept that fact.
Today there are better bolt action hunting rifles and there are better military rifles and yet we can still enjoy our LE rifles on the range and in the field.
fritzhanzel
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Legally you are not allowed to sell reloaded ammo without a license.
