.303 british best Millitary arm ever built.

[TimC]

Sadly like him most went before we realised what we owed them. he was a professional soldier as were all of the wifes side of the family. Mine we all wartime Volunteers, canadians serving overseas. I became the first professional soldier in our side of the family since the Hessians fought the French and Yanks in that war to the south of you!

 

[TimC]

I can't comment on other military rifles but I've got a "bubba'd" version mk 4 and I love it.

It takes alot to make it "not shoot" and for hunting it's always steady. (I don't mean to hi jack your thread but I had to comment.)

Around here, everyone has a 303 as their second rifle. It's a favorite for the old timers. I would speculate that because of the popularity back then that this cartridge would account for more game in this province than any other. My new hobby is reloading for this thing - much to my wife's liking.

Regards
Ron R

Hya Ron, just realised it was you posting. Nice to see you again and hope to see some pics from you again soon! Good hunting.
I am taking out my 303 loaded with 125 gns .311 bullets for a back up as my 12 year old is supposed to be taking his CZ 527 in 7.62 x 39 for Roe does on the 4th of November. They havent been shot at for nearly 10 months so this 3 month Doe season should be spectacular. I remember opening day 3 years ago we bagged 2 fallow and a Roe in 15 minutes.

 

[grouch]

All you 98 mauser fans, I agree that it's a good sporter action, but I'm baffled by the fact that if a round gets dropped into the chamber, the bolt won't extract it. All the earlier mausers would, as will every other bolt action military rifle I've seen. In any sort of battle condition, having to stop and remove a stuck cartridge with a cleaning rod from the muzzle while being shot at could ruin your whole day. That would get it a long way down my list as a desirable military rifle.

 

[Cocked&Locked]

I personally rate the 98 Mauser as the best hunting rifle, the 1903 Springfield the best target rifle, and the SMLE the best battle rifle.

Change the sights on a mauser and I'll take it over any springfield ever made that wasn't a hand built national match weapon. Despite the american love affair and how they like to harp on it, it was an inferior weapon to the one they copied (kinda like the m-60 now that I think of it.) Out to 600 yards I'll take the enfield, and if we're going purpose built target sevice rifles, I'd take it out to 1000 if the wind ain't howlin'.

You can't argue with the 98 action being slick, strong and adaptable though.

 

[TimC]

I used a Mauser 98 at Bisley last year and the sights lowest setting of 400 metres. I really dont think of it as a precision weapon in the hands of conscript infantry,, to be honest once the Old Army was gone I suspect that accuraccy suffered or rather marksmanship did in the rush to train the troops. Although in France there was little excuse as most of Kitcheners Volunteers werent blooded before the Somme Battles of 1916 leaving only the Territorials and those new army who went to the Dardanelles to face the music. Modern armies try to replace old fashioned marksmanship with firepower which in the event of 20 weeks of training cannot be taught as well as in units that train constantly for operations.

 

[Boomer]

Change the sights on a mauser and I'll take it over any springfield ever made that wasn't a hand built national match weapon. Despite the american love affair and how they like to harp on it, it was an inferior weapon to the one they copied (kinda like the m-60 now that I think of it.)

You can't argue with the 98 action being slick, strong and adaptable though.

Interesting point, but the German's didn't seem interested in putting decent sights on their rifles, while the Americans did. Never the less, it would be interesting to have a shootout between the K98k and the '03 Springfield each in the sniper garb of the time period. In all likely hood there would be little to choose between the two, but you would also want the comparison to include the shooting doctrine of each nation. There were some very skillful German shooters, but I've never seen a picture of a German sniper slung up, and I have two very good books on the subject. If it were taught it would be there.

By the way - the M-60 worked OK once they added a c-ration can to take the bend out of the belt. You will notice the current ones have a nice plastic feed ramp built in

 

[TimC]

I dont think I have seen any evidence of the US troops in WW1 equiped as snipers. plenty of German and UK/Commonwealth but nothing of the other nations. I suspect that a lot of reported sniper incidents were misreported. A lot I suspect were good riflemen using the tools of their trade correctly.
Considering the effort expended by the powers involved in that conflict on sniping I am a little surprised not to see evidence from the Russian, Austro Hungarian, Italian, Turkish etc. There is no doubt that they existed but as fitting of telescopic sights to hunting rifles never really took off until the 1960's over here I suspect that most marksmen were really very well trained and accomplished riflemen!
A lot of the myths surrounding the safest/strongest action for a rifle have been based upon the line that if the Germans had it and the Yanks copied it then it must be the best. Didnt win them any wars though! Admittedly to paraphrase an elder statesman "It was a damn close run thing!"
With the realisation that the P14 especially the Winchester produced model fitted with the F Fine rear sight could out shoot the SMLE and Aldis scope out to 200 yards came the acceptance into service of that rifle fitted with a scope for sniping. This however only lasted until the No4T was available, the No3 rifle being farmed out and The Aussies sticking with their WW1 kit! The Ross was arguably the better sniping rifle despite the Warner Swasey scope mainly due to the long barrel but also due to the means of employment of the Canadian snipers being ahead in doctrine by many months of the other Allied forces.

 

[savagefan]

Still serving waynhell up north, gotta be something good about 'em.

 

[Cocked&Locked]

By the way - the M-60 worked OK once they added a c-ration can to take the bend out of the belt. You will notice the current ones have a nice plastic feed ramp built in

I dislike any weapon that has to be saftey wired together to keep from dissasembling itself. And a quick change barrel with no handle? "hold on bubba, gotta put my asbestos mit on, tell charlie to wait!" How you could start with the MG 42 and screw it up is beyond me....... , for pete's sake the germans still use it with very minor mods as the mg2 I believe....

 

[TimC]

Mg3

 

[Cocked&Locked]

Mg3

Thank you, I stand corrected.

Oh, and contiuing the m-60 rant. If you close the feed cover incorrectly you damage the feed mechanism, the anodizing on the cover itself is flaky and quickly wears off leaving a bright shiny surface (just what I need to carry in combat), they had to add the feed ramp because they changed the mechanism from a very robust two arm feed to a weak 1 arm feed, you can insert the gas piston backwards (it'll still fire, just semi auto only ) and the gripping surface has a habit of peeling off the front end leaving a smooth bare metal surface that is quite slippery.

To be fair, it has less sharp corners than the old gpig, and the latest version addresses the worst of these issues, but it shouldnt have taken 40 years to do so, and the maker didn't really move on it till they dumped it for the FN MAG.

Deep breathsss, step back from the keyboard, calm down, sorry, I really dislike this weapon, you may have picked up on that....

 

[TimC]

MG3 now but it did start as MG1 in 7.92 and was reworked. I believe they bought the early models from CETME in Spain to ensure that no swastika marked ones were used. They also started with the FAL and wore US WW2 steel helmets!