303 British reloading Lead Bullets (No accuracy)

alexanderdj77

alexanderdj77

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Hi there I have reloaded some 303 British with 165Lead RN followed the reloading charts with 22gr of H4198. Took the gun to the range at 100ys would hit a 4'x4' Paper 2 out of every 10 Shoots. Went to the 50 yd range and found that all 3 of my 303 British rifle were all over the place hitting the 4'x4' paper but no grouping whatsoever.
I tried slugging the barrel got a .310 diameter and my bullets are all .311.
If someone could explain to me what I had done wrong and what I can do to make it hit the paper that would be much appreciated.
 
I looked for data H4198 could not find any cast or jacketed 303B ????

with out knowing data I would say too fast of a speed ----> wrong powder
were bullets gaschecked?

on a side note

most people shooting cast in a 303 use a heaver bullet 180 to 200g plus from any where from 2100 to 1500 fps
 
Your bullet is still pretty small, I'd have no hesitation going .313, you should take a look at Lymans cast bullet handbook, your loads look a little light (Im thinking your eyeballing IMR 4198 loads and extrapolating). Im going to assume you're using a gas check.

What alloy are you using? What lube? Are you getting lead fouling? What mould are you using?

Get used to initial frusatration, theres a bit of it when you start using lead bullets.
 
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hickstick_10 said:
Your bullet is still pretty small, I'd have no hesitation going .313, you should take a look at Lymans cast bullet handbook, your loads look a little light (Im thinking your eyeballing IMR 4198 loads and extrapolating). Im going to assume you're using a gas check.

What alloy are you using? What lube? Are you getting lead fouling? What mould are you using?

Get used to initial frusatration, theres a bit of it when you start using lead bullets.
Click to expand...

I agree, sounds like the bullet is way to small and moving all over the place when it goes down the barrel. I have 4 .303 rifles and not one of them us under .313 in diameter so I use at least a .314 for one of them and .317 for the other 3 rifles. .303 Brit can be hard to measure because of the odd number of grooves. Which mould are you using and what size of bullet does it drop right from the mold?
 
Your load is fine, at most mid-range pressure for that cast bullet IMO.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1015452-Five-303-Brit-Cast-Bullet-Loads

The more likely cause of the poor accuracy is:

- the gun (?) is it accurate with other loads?
- the bullet is undersized. Is it a Lee Enfield? 0.310" is very small, smallest I've seen, even for a P14;
- a problem with lube; and/or
- if the bullet's a gas check design, are you using a gas check?
 
I haven't reloaded for my .303s yet, but I was told early on to slug the barrel to be sure. There can be variances.
 
You slugged at .310? Wow.

I reload with hard cast projectiles, 200gn gas checked sized at .313. I have a few loads for them, my favourites being with 4198 (I don't enjoy lighter loads in the enfield). I don;t (usually) print paper, but I have targets at 165 yards that I can hit regularly with my cast reloads.

I'm no expert, but I'd have to agree that even slugged at .310, you need a bigger projectile. Are they rounds that you cast?
 
Are your bullets gas checked?
As Andy mentioned, your load is in the proper range, but they should have gas checks. 22 grains of 4198 will probably give the 165 grain bullet about 1650 fps and this may be too much for a flat base bullet, especially if the bullet was designed for gas check, but is being shot without them.
If you are not using gas checks, you could try cutting your powder charge back a couple of grains.
 
There is no way in h### that that 303 barrel has a groove diameter of only .310"!!

I have slugged literally scores of these, and never saw an original barrel in a Lee-Enfield or a P14 that was under .312"
Most are between .313 and .315" I have 2, both P14's and both are just over .313"

Even aftermarket barrels for these rifles are nominally .311" groove diameter.

The bullet is too small for your rifle, OP. Go up to .313 or .314 and your groups should tighten right up.
If you have shot any quantity of those undersized slugs, check your barrel for leading, as well.

Regards, Dave.
 
My bullets aren't gas check. I had brought 3 Enfields that day 2x P14 one sporterized on Full wood and on Enfield Mark 4 No 1 the P14 are normally tack drivers. I really think it could be light bullets and yes I kind of eye balled the load from 308 info. I am going to load some jacketed ammo to specs and see if that makes a difference.
If I get the lead bullets going 2000ft/s wouldn't that lead up my barrel pretty bad?
Thanks for all the great info
 
C. E. Harris has a really good article on reduced loads for military rifles. I'm using a 185 gr cast bullet at .313 with 26 gr of IMR 4895 in my No.1 Mk 3. My father uses the same load in his Mosin and can outshoot most guys at the range with military rifles. As others have said the barrels in the Enfields usually range from .313 -.315 although there have been some as high as .318. Only cure for that is a custom mould. $$$

home.comcast.net/~gavinsw/guns/castbulletmilitaryrifle.pdf‎

This is the link to the article that I found when I googled it. (I have a hard copy, but didn't feel like typing it out) :p

Hope this helps you out.
 
alexanderdj77 said:
If I get the lead bullets going 2000ft/s wouldn't that lead up my barrel pretty bad?
Click to expand...
Depends on the bore size, bore roughness, bullet alloy, lube, and several other factors.

I've fired pure WW, water dropped, GC'ed bullets up to ~2000fps in several rifles with good accuracy and no leading.
If you don't have a gas check the normal speed limit is around 1500-1700fps depending on alloy and bore. With gas checks you can be looking at 2200fps+.
An undersized bullet with no gas check is a perfect storm in terms of tumbling bullets and bad leading.

I order custom sized moulds from Accurate Moulds and they run $80-120 for a 2-cavity aluminum mould cut to the size I specify with the alloy I specify.
They don't actually have generic moulds you can order at all. You need to specify desired as-cast bullet size when you pick the design.
So far the three moulds I've gotten from them have all been at most +.0015"/-0.
You can also submit a custom design for no extra charge but it adds a few weeks to the production time. Moulds ordered from their catalogue (they already have the cherries on hand) usually ship in a week or less.
 
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If you are casting your own bullets, you might also want to weigh them to ensure they don't develop a hollow as they cool.
I ran into that problem casting heavy bullets. I found the trick was to keep the pour going for a bit after the mould block appears full. That way, any shrinking of the lead in the mould, as it cools and solidifies, will draw some additional melted lead into the cavity.
I found some 350 gr .457 bullets I loaded recently had the odd flyer, even though I had a good sight picture when I fired. After weighing the remaining bullets, I found some were lighter than others, but the sprue cut-off covered the hollow.
 
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