.303 P-14 Accuracy?

Siggy Stardust

Siggy Stardust

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Hey Gang,

I have an old P-14 that I've owned for years. It took me until about 3 years ago to find a B-Square scope mount for it, and when I did, I put a Bushnell 5-15x40 Mil-Dot on top of it. I agree - it's kind of like putting $10,000 worth of stereo equipment into a $2500 car, but it started out as something of an experiment and I've had a ton of fun shootingand dragging the old blister around.

I was just curious as to what some thoughts might be on the accuracy that would be reasonable to expect from the old girl...

The bore, as far as I can tell, obviously isn't brand new but seems to be in fine shape. I've been running handloads through it since day one - both 150gr. and 180gr. SPs. The velocities are about 2500 and 2300fps respectively - about 100fps lower than the book values near max loads. I've also experimented with various seating depths and distances off the lands to see their effects on accuracy and velocity.

I've been able to manage an average of 2.0"@100 yds., though I have noted that she much prefers the 150s to the 180s in terms of accuracy. Sometimes the groups don't seem very consistent, however. I'm quite sure the scope is on there in relatively solid fashion as well.

I was wondering what kind of accuracy anyone else out there has been getting with these rifles - am I doing OK, or should this fossil be doing just a wee bit better?
 
Pretty sure I have read that they can be down to MOA or better rifles with the right handload. I just had one fixed up and can't wait to try her out! There will be guys along soon to help you out with loadings to try. I remember everyone suggests flat based bullets in enfields though. I also hear that the S&K mount for these is the one to use for being nice and solid

Ian
 
Reason for for flat based bullets.
Cordite burns hotter than flake powder, causing throat erosion. Boat tail bullets are prone to "tipping" because of that. Flat based bullets effectively seal the bore. In a New barrel with flake or ball powder throat erosion is not problem
 
Enfield rifling has a decided preference for the flat-based bullet.

Try 40 grains of 4064 with a Hornady 150 Spire Point seated to the OAL of a Ball round. This leaves the cannelure completely exposed.

I have a P-'14 here which shoots half-MOA with this load. It has been chopped and bedded (before I got it), then a square, recessed Target crown and I had to install a honkin' huge scope on the thing because anything else would not even get me close to the rifle's limit of accuracy. So I ended up with $500 worth of work into a garbaged, chopped rifle that was given to me for spare parts..... but it can sure SHOOT. Best do date: 6 in one ragged hole at 145 yards. Excellent rifle for a guy with Scots ancestry: it uses the same bullet-hole all day long! Ye dinna hae ta buy anither, laddie!

This is rather a steamy load but it is accurate.

Matched brass, weighed charges, of course.
 
smellie said:
Enfield rifling has a decided preference for the flat-based bullet.

Try 40 grains of 4064 with a Hornady 150 Spire Point seated to the OAL of a Ball round. This leaves the cannelure completely exposed.

I have a P-'14 here which shoots half-MOA with this load. It has been chopped and bedded (before I got it), then a square, recessed Target crown and I had to install a honkin' huge scope on the thing because anything else would not even get me close to the rifle's limit of accuracy. So I ended up with $500 worth of work into a garbaged, chopped rifle that was given to me for spare parts..... but it can sure SHOOT. Best do date: 6 in one ragged hole at 145 yards. Excellent rifle for a guy with Scots ancestry: it uses the same bullet-hole all day long! Ye dinna hae ta buy anither, laddie!

This is rather a steamy load but it is accurate.

Matched brass, weighed charges, of course.
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Yeah, I got mine from Century Arms when they were still operating out East - just picked out of a crate, I think. I haven't done any work to it other than the scope mount.

I've been running the 150gr. Hornady's on top of 42.0 / IMR 4895 and getting just under 2500fps here in Edmonton. I've just been using the rifle single-shot as I have seated the bullets out further, trying to keep about 0.020" off the lands - a COL of 3.140" which is too long to fit into the mag. And yeah, that cannelure sticks a little ways out. I did try seating some in the cannelure and while it did seem to slightly detract from the accuracy, it raised the average velocity by about 40fps.

I tried the 4064 using 180gr. Sierras and it didn't like... Haven't tried 4064 with the 150s, though.

Both the Speer and Sierra manuals list their cartridges at a C.O.L. of 3.075" - I'm assuming this is the same as the old ball ammo. Hornady listes the 150 SP at 2.815", and I'm assuming this is what fits it into the cannelure.

I'd almost suspect the scope mount, but I've gone back and forth between different loads in the same shooting session and you can certainly see the difference that makes.

This certainly got me wondering what I should be expecting from the rifle. Of course it's not a match rifle and I don't want to go spending $1500 to get it all dialed in either... I'll certainly try the different seating depth (that which the rifle was designed for - that's a good place to start) and the 4064.

I'll be sure to let everyone know how it goes!
 
42/4895 with a 150 for 2500..... bit light in my eyes.

in a strong action such as the p-14 you should be able to duplicate original .308w performance: 2700 with a 150. The old Canadian commercial Dominion .303 put that out and some Brit loads were hotter.

How well does the action fit into the stock? Some of those rifles were "bedded" by the "drop-in" method and need to be tightened up. They were built very fast, 97 years ago; the wood has had time to shrink and warp. Have you checked it?
 
In the early 1990s Century was selling P14s which were re-barreled with commercial barrels having a RH rifling twist, unlike the standard Enfield LH twist. Mine also came in an as new Remington M1917 stock. The barrels are marked C.A.I. (Century Arms International) and St. A. Vt (St. Albans Vermont) to the rear of the foresight. It has been a good shooter.
 
purple said:
In the early 1990s Century was selling P14s which were re-barreled with commercial barrels having a RH rifling twist, unlike the standard Enfield LH twist. Mine also came in an as new Remington M1917 stock. The barrels are marked C.A.I. (Century Arms International) and St. A. Vt (St. Albans Vermont) to the rear of the foresight. It has been a good shooter.
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OK... Well, I was gonna post some pics here but then found out I need to get a membership in order to do so. No prob, but then when trying to do so, couldn't pay for it - go figure. Guess I'll have to take care of that later. Anyway...

I couldn't find any markings to indicate a newer barrel - it does appear to be a left-hand twist (5 grooves).

Everything appears to be nice and tight - I've put about 150 rounds through it and haven't noticed movement of anything, though I don't know if it's something a guy would actually notice. The stock seems pretty firmly attached as well. As far as drying out and getting cracked... Well, when I got it I think it had been packed in grease for some time and it's nowhere near "dried out". Leave it out in the sun for a while and you'll end up with messy fingers - hehe. Yeah, it's pretty waterproof.

Never had it checked out, but that certainly might be worth it. I'm no gunsmith and some more knowing eyes may be able to pick out obvious things I wouldn't. I guess i had always assumed that a 95 year-old rifle would already have had everything done it would need. Thinking about it now, though, that seems like a really stupid notion.
 
IIRC, there was some British/UK marksman that commented words to the effect of, that the P-14 in issue format, was THE most accurate service rifle to grace any rifle range in Great Britain. I'm not sure who said that exactly. Has anyone else heard this statement?
 
Brutus said:
IIRC, there was some British/UK marksman that commented words to the effect of, that the P-14 in issue format, was THE most accurate service rifle to grace any rifle range in Great Britain. I'm not sure who said that exactly. Has anyone else heard this statement?
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I was under the impression that the Ross rifle was one of the most accurate service rifles,..i believe the Canadian team at Bisley did very well using the Ross
 
You have to remember that the P-'14 came directly from the P-'13: a BRITISH development.

The Ross was TOLERATED at best, being a mere COLONIAL rifle.

The fact that the Ross wiped everything else in the world OFF the ranges simply was not to be acknowledged.

Same-same thing, Americans will tell you that the 1903 Springfield was the most accurate service rifle ever.

Both like to call the Ross a "target rifle". The fact that it was the official rifle of TWO Dominions mks it a "Service rifle" in my estimation, anyway.

But the P-'14 WAS very good.
 
So this is the beast as she sits now. Haven't changed a thing with the exception of adding the scope with B-Square mount and as I said before, everything seems tight. Think I'll take it in to a smith for a check-up though. Will post more after I run some different handloads through it.

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Brutus said:
IIRC, there was some British/UK marksman that commented words to the effect of, that the P-14 in issue format, was THE most accurate service rifle to grace any rifle range in Great Britain. I'm not sure who said that exactly. Has anyone else heard this statement?
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many P-14/17's{30-06} were used as precision/sniper rifles...
 
..... Before I start really serous load development ( When I get back home from Vacation !! LOL!!! ). Any tips for 'glass bedding ? Superficially, a P14 in P17 stock. .... 'Gap around the tang will have to be filled in that's for sure. ....... With luck, "case separation" will be close to eliminated ! ...... David K
 
If you are getting 2 MOA already you probably won't gain much from glass bedding. Its always worth a look at the muzzle crown on an old MILSURP. A lot of them show dings and irregularities which detract from accuracy. Besides, glass bedding will detract from collectability. Some tips on bedding the P14, M1917 and M1903 rifles;
- the recoil lug must bear solidly on the face of the lug cutout in the stock
- the bottom of the action behind the recoil lug should bear squarely on the wood
- the barrel should be free of contact with the stock for it`s entire length forward of the chamber area, except at the forend tip where it should bear solidly and be centered in the forend tip. A pressure of 5-7 lbs should be required to raise the barrel from contact with the wood at the forend tip. If the barrel is not in contact with the forend tip you can can re-work a small washer approx .030 to .035 thick and place it in the stock below the rear tang so that the rear guard screw will pass thru it. this will tip the rifle forward and down against the forend tip with the recoil lug area of the stock acting as a fulcrum.This said, some rifles shoot well with the entire barrel floating free of any contact with the wood forward of the chamber area.
- the top of the barrel must not be in contact with the inner surface of the metal upper band as this is ruinous to accuracy
- the upper tang at the rear of the action must not be in hard contact with the corresponding wood surface of the stock. If this happens the rear tang will act as a recoil lug and cause the stock to split. If there is hard contact here a shim can be placed behind the recoil lug to move the action forward in the stock
- the metal stock bushing which surrounds the rear guard screw must be in place

When tightening the guard screws, tighten the front screw down first. Before final tightening bump the butt against a piece of 2x4 to seat the recoil lug in it`s seat in the stock. the front guard screw should be `gorilla tight`when tightened with a well fitting driver with a 6 inch blade. The rear guard screw should be snug, but not as tight.
 
.... Thanks "purple" ! ... Answers my questions/concerns perfectly ! Once back from Family Vacation I can start serious load developemnt..:cheers:... David K
 
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