.303 questions
- Thread starter l.denison
- Start date
The .303British is a good cartridge for your purpose. There are better, but it is certainly good enough, especially if you reload or will take up reloading, which will be an advantage for the better cartridges, too.
But it depends on what rifle you get. Most likely a Lee-Enfield, though occasionally P14 Enfields (which are Enfields, but not Lee-Enfields) and Ross rifles are offered for sale, and while they don't make them anymore there were many made and lots of them are still out there, soldiering on, and they can be had for a little or a lot of money. Some are certainly worn out and not worth having, but many, even in the low price category, are still good serviceable rifles that can be a pleasure to shoot at the range and are good robust hunting rifles.
In modern production hunting guns, the Winchester Model 1895 lever action was offered in .303British for a while, and recently Ruger has made its No.1 single shot in this calibre. I believe the first batch were sold out quickly (mostly on pre-order) but contact site sponsor Prophet River Firearms (link ad at top of page) if you are interested in this notion because I think they were going to be getting a few more eventually.
Check in the Milsurps forum on this site for lots of threads about these rifles, and in the EE Milsurps for sale to actually buy one. "Sporterised" examples for sale may also or instead be listed in the EE Hunting and Sporting Arms for sale.
But be mindful that for a good general purpose hunting rifle, the .308 Winchester and .30-06 Springfield cartridges offer a bit better performance than the .303British and are made in a good selection of new production hunting rifles. Bolt actions such as Marlin's XS7 and XL7, some Savage models and the Stevens 200, the Mossberg ATR100, and the single shot H&R Ultra and Handi-Rifles are all good hunting rifles in these calibres and they are available new for well under $500.
A Lee-Enfield No.4 in good useable condition with all its wood and no permanent alterations like a chopped barrel or drilled and tapped scope mounts is unlikely to be offered for sale for less than $350. In better condition they are sometimes asking over $500.
But it depends on what rifle you get. Most likely a Lee-Enfield, though occasionally P14 Enfields (which are Enfields, but not Lee-Enfields) and Ross rifles are offered for sale, and while they don't make them anymore there were many made and lots of them are still out there, soldiering on, and they can be had for a little or a lot of money. Some are certainly worn out and not worth having, but many, even in the low price category, are still good serviceable rifles that can be a pleasure to shoot at the range and are good robust hunting rifles.
In modern production hunting guns, the Winchester Model 1895 lever action was offered in .303British for a while, and recently Ruger has made its No.1 single shot in this calibre. I believe the first batch were sold out quickly (mostly on pre-order) but contact site sponsor Prophet River Firearms (link ad at top of page) if you are interested in this notion because I think they were going to be getting a few more eventually.
Check in the Milsurps forum on this site for lots of threads about these rifles, and in the EE Milsurps for sale to actually buy one. "Sporterised" examples for sale may also or instead be listed in the EE Hunting and Sporting Arms for sale.
But be mindful that for a good general purpose hunting rifle, the .308 Winchester and .30-06 Springfield cartridges offer a bit better performance than the .303British and are made in a good selection of new production hunting rifles. Bolt actions such as Marlin's XS7 and XL7, some Savage models and the Stevens 200, the Mossberg ATR100, and the single shot H&R Ultra and Handi-Rifles are all good hunting rifles in these calibres and they are available new for well under $500.
A Lee-Enfield No.4 in good useable condition with all its wood and no permanent alterations like a chopped barrel or drilled and tapped scope mounts is unlikely to be offered for sale for less than $350. In better condition they are sometimes asking over $500.
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Have you heard of the 6.5X55mm caliber?
Swedish mausers and the sporters that are derived from them are the quintessential deer rifle AND target shooter. The Olympic biathlon was based on this caliber at first. I have hunted with and shot targets with a few Swedes. The one I currently own is the most accurate stock rifle I have.
Just an idea!!!
PS: I have hunted with the sks (7.62X39mm) as well. Very good bush gun, but not so good at the range. Very fun though!
Swedish mausers and the sporters that are derived from them are the quintessential deer rifle AND target shooter. The Olympic biathlon was based on this caliber at first. I have hunted with and shot targets with a few Swedes. The one I currently own is the most accurate stock rifle I have.
Just an idea!!!
PS: I have hunted with the sks (7.62X39mm) as well. Very good bush gun, but not so good at the range. Very fun though!
x2 the tooner. Check out a couple of the banner dealers at the top of the page. Frontier, has package deals on new rifle/scope combinations, that are as cheap, or cheaper than you can outfit a milsurp rifle for. You might be able to find a sportered milsurp combo cheaper but then, you run the risk of worn bores, poor bedding and lack of recoil pad, to name a few problems.
The 303 British, is on par with all of the cartridges tooner listed. Lacking a bit, but a deer wouldn't notice, unless you tell him first.
Go for the best you can afford. The Combo deals, will leave a bit to be desired by some afficionados but they are certainly more than adequate for deer hunting. They are also a complete package, the only thing you will have to add is a sling and ammunition. The milsurp, will usually come without a scope and may suffer from the above mentioned woes. For some reason, when the older Bubbas got ahold of them, they chopped the stocks, removed the forward pressure points and threw away the spacers for the stock screws. That's where the old adage the 303, makes a good handle for a car jack, came from.
The 303 British, is on par with all of the cartridges tooner listed. Lacking a bit, but a deer wouldn't notice, unless you tell him first.
Go for the best you can afford. The Combo deals, will leave a bit to be desired by some afficionados but they are certainly more than adequate for deer hunting. They are also a complete package, the only thing you will have to add is a sling and ammunition. The milsurp, will usually come without a scope and may suffer from the above mentioned woes. For some reason, when the older Bubbas got ahold of them, they chopped the stocks, removed the forward pressure points and threw away the spacers for the stock screws. That's where the old adage the 303, makes a good handle for a car jack, came from.
bluemike807
CGN Regular
- Location
- Eastern Ontario
If you're new to both and looking for an inexpensive way to start shooting, a Lee Enfield is a great choice for a starting rifle. That said, if you're brand new in general, you might consider getting an inexpensive, bolt action .22 to build up your shooting skills.
As mentioned, .303 British is chambered by a handful of rifles, some expensive, most not. Its an older, military cartridge that originally used black powder. An entry level gun to look for would be a Lee Enfield, either No. 1 Mk3 (WW1 Vintage - with some exceptions) or a No4. Mk1/2 (WW2 and after vintage) which has been 'sporterized', meaning that much of the wooden stock has been cut away to reduce the weight of the rifle. Googling 'Sporterized Enfield' will give you some examples. These are common as mud anywhere in Canada and represent possibly the most used rifle/calibre for hunting in our nation, at least historically. You can expect to pay anywhere from $80-200 for a sporter.
Things to consider: The sights on the No1 Mk3 are different from those of the No4. Mk1 - the former uses a notched 'ladder', where your aim is to put the front sight blade between two posts - and have your target sit immediately above those aligned points. On the latter, there is (usually) a peep sight, adjustable for range, through which you look, placing the top of the front sight blade in the center of the circle made by the peep, then putting that blade on target. This is also good because the peep is set at the rear of the receiver (unlike the ladder which is forward of the receiver), giving you a longer 'sight radius', which contributes to greater accuracy. Some prefer one style over the other, I prefer a peep, as I believe it to be more intuitive and accurate.
When you're getting your first beater Enfield, for gods sake dont do what I did. Check the bore; different rifles will have a different number of grooves, depending on the mindset of the manufacturer. Usually it'll be 2 or 5, though there are variations. The number of these grooves isnt quite so important as their depth and the overall state of the bore. If it has been 'shot out' - the grooves will be shallow and hence wont give the bullet alot of spin. Likewise, stay away from bores that are pitted, overly dirty or frosted. There's enough Enfields out there that you can be picky.
If you've got money to burn, go buy something expensive, others here can tell you about them.
Enjoy!
As mentioned, .303 British is chambered by a handful of rifles, some expensive, most not. Its an older, military cartridge that originally used black powder. An entry level gun to look for would be a Lee Enfield, either No. 1 Mk3 (WW1 Vintage - with some exceptions) or a No4. Mk1/2 (WW2 and after vintage) which has been 'sporterized', meaning that much of the wooden stock has been cut away to reduce the weight of the rifle. Googling 'Sporterized Enfield' will give you some examples. These are common as mud anywhere in Canada and represent possibly the most used rifle/calibre for hunting in our nation, at least historically. You can expect to pay anywhere from $80-200 for a sporter.
Things to consider: The sights on the No1 Mk3 are different from those of the No4. Mk1 - the former uses a notched 'ladder', where your aim is to put the front sight blade between two posts - and have your target sit immediately above those aligned points. On the latter, there is (usually) a peep sight, adjustable for range, through which you look, placing the top of the front sight blade in the center of the circle made by the peep, then putting that blade on target. This is also good because the peep is set at the rear of the receiver (unlike the ladder which is forward of the receiver), giving you a longer 'sight radius', which contributes to greater accuracy. Some prefer one style over the other, I prefer a peep, as I believe it to be more intuitive and accurate.
When you're getting your first beater Enfield, for gods sake dont do what I did. Check the bore; different rifles will have a different number of grooves, depending on the mindset of the manufacturer. Usually it'll be 2 or 5, though there are variations. The number of these grooves isnt quite so important as their depth and the overall state of the bore. If it has been 'shot out' - the grooves will be shallow and hence wont give the bullet alot of spin. Likewise, stay away from bores that are pitted, overly dirty or frosted. There's enough Enfields out there that you can be picky.
If you've got money to burn, go buy something expensive, others here can tell you about them.
Enjoy!
BM807, don't forget about the early metford style lands, they look worn when they are as new. They were for the black powder cartridges. They are still around, in larger numbers than you think. Otherwise not bad advice.
If ld, decides he must have a scope, the price of drilling and tapping, mounts, rings and scope will quickly rise above the cost of a combination package, by Savage or Remington. You might find a decent 303Brit package for a similar price. I like the 303Brit a lot by the way.
If he is satisfied, with metalic sights, then by all means, go for a decent 303Brit, he certainly won't be under gunned for anything, from gophers to Moose as well as everything in between.
If ld, decides he must have a scope, the price of drilling and tapping, mounts, rings and scope will quickly rise above the cost of a combination package, by Savage or Remington. You might find a decent 303Brit package for a similar price. I like the 303Brit a lot by the way.
If he is satisfied, with metalic sights, then by all means, go for a decent 303Brit, he certainly won't be under gunned for anything, from gophers to Moose as well as everything in between.
Where you are matters. A very large number of Canadian hunters started with a Lee-Enfield for deer and moose(know a guy who uses nothing else for moose). Look into a No. 4 Mk I or Mk I*(same basic rifle), sporterized or not, rather than a No. 1 Mk III(sights are better) and make sure you get proof of good headspace.
There are a whack of P-14 rifles out there that already have been converted into sporters, some of them very nice. They usually go in the $100-$200 range because they are "just old .303s". These were American-made rifles originally and, if you find one that has been done WELL, they usually were made up from old military rifles, the work done by Parker-Hale or BSA, and most of them were rebuilt to 'as new' condition before being sold. These are Factory Conversions and they were ALL good when they hit the market..... and most of them have not been shot all that much. They were bought, used for a couple of years and then stood in the corner when the guy got himself a "real" rifle. Today, they are being sold off by children and grandchildren who don't want horrid GUNS around, and there are some VERY real deals to be found. Other REALLY good deals can be found with the American M-1917 rifle, also converted to a Factory Sporter by the same people as above. The P-14 is in .303, theM-1917 is in .30-06, but a LOT of the parts interchange and the rifles LOOK identical, almost.
You can make almost ANY of these shoot just as good as a modern rifle. All you have to do is clean it out, tighten up the screws and feed it good ammo. You can generally find any of these for UNDER $200, and most of them have already been drilled and tapped for scopes. WITH a scope, you might go higher. I was given one by a good friend, a year ago: BSA conversion, semi-custom, just lovely wood, looked like a brand-new rifle except that it was last worked on 50 years ago. It has a 1960 Weaver K-4 scope on it, it makes very little groups (well under 1 MOA) and it sold for $300.
There are also slightly-altered military rifles out there, all types, which CAN be restored to military configuration. These are among the CHEAPEST .303 and even .30-06 rifls out there and most of them are pretty good. These are your $75 - $150 rifles. Check the bore carefully: tops of the lands in the barrel should be crisp and NOT rounded. If you have that much, you have something that you can MAKE shoot.
You will get your best accuracy with handloaded ammo. My deer load for the .303 is a Hornady 150 Interlock Spire Point bullet, seated so that the cannelure shows, with 40 grains of 4064 powder. Ths is not a hot load, but it is very accurate in most rifles..... and accuracy is much more important than pure power when you are hunting.
Go find something thatworks, then come back here if you have questions; somebody wil answer.
The .303 has taken every species of big game in the world, and that includes elephant. It is certainly sufficient for deer.... unless they are wearing body armour!
Have fun!
.
You can make almost ANY of these shoot just as good as a modern rifle. All you have to do is clean it out, tighten up the screws and feed it good ammo. You can generally find any of these for UNDER $200, and most of them have already been drilled and tapped for scopes. WITH a scope, you might go higher. I was given one by a good friend, a year ago: BSA conversion, semi-custom, just lovely wood, looked like a brand-new rifle except that it was last worked on 50 years ago. It has a 1960 Weaver K-4 scope on it, it makes very little groups (well under 1 MOA) and it sold for $300.
There are also slightly-altered military rifles out there, all types, which CAN be restored to military configuration. These are among the CHEAPEST .303 and even .30-06 rifls out there and most of them are pretty good. These are your $75 - $150 rifles. Check the bore carefully: tops of the lands in the barrel should be crisp and NOT rounded. If you have that much, you have something that you can MAKE shoot.
You will get your best accuracy with handloaded ammo. My deer load for the .303 is a Hornady 150 Interlock Spire Point bullet, seated so that the cannelure shows, with 40 grains of 4064 powder. Ths is not a hot load, but it is very accurate in most rifles..... and accuracy is much more important than pure power when you are hunting.
Go find something thatworks, then come back here if you have questions; somebody wil answer.
The .303 has taken every species of big game in the world, and that includes elephant. It is certainly sufficient for deer.... unless they are wearing body armour!
Have fun!
.
I believe that for a hunting cartridge, the .303 is as good as any other .30 cal.(I Know it's actually .31), the trick is finding one that fits you and is the right weight, balance, etc. Then finding good loads for it, if you find all this, you're good as gold! I think the new Rugers in .303 would be the ultimate, I'd like one to ring out myself.
Yep - 303 is just fine if you practice with it. 303 will lay out pretty much anything you can find in north america.... and the rifles are cheap. No gunsmithing mounts are available as well - I believe Gairlochain (Spelling????) is making mounts for them. Anyways, hard to go wrong as long as you practice with it.
Enfield is a good choice. One that has been sporterized (wood stock cut down) is a lightweight rifle that you'd have no problem carrying around. With the original brass butt plate they do kick a bit hard so I would suggest a slip-on rubber butt pad for some additional comfort. Some guys like to rag on the .303 cartridge but really there's nothing wrong with it and it's an able performer.
- Location
- Tucson, Arizona
As stated, the .303 with modern hunting bullets will take down anything on the continent though it might be a bit light for Polar bears, whales and dinosaurs
bluemike807
CGN Regular
- Location
- Eastern Ontario
Actually if Farley Mowat's A Whale for the Killing is to be believed, it can be used on whales too. Though you shouldnt.
John, thanks for the good word regarding our favourite cartridge. You are quite right, of course.
But then, I just had a birthday (another???? Will they never stop?) and so now I can admit to another foible from The Olde Days. Around here, we took care of the really big dinosaurs with our .57 Sniders; I imagine you did much the same in your part of the world with your .50-70 Springfields.
Then we shot off most of the medium-sized ones with our .25 Stevens Cooey Canucks.
All these young guys today have to worry about are the little ones. An ought-six or a three-oh-three is quite sufficient.
lol!
.
But then, I just had a birthday (another???? Will they never stop?) and so now I can admit to another foible from The Olde Days. Around here, we took care of the really big dinosaurs with our .57 Sniders; I imagine you did much the same in your part of the world with your .50-70 Springfields.
Then we shot off most of the medium-sized ones with our .25 Stevens Cooey Canucks.
All these young guys today have to worry about are the little ones. An ought-six or a three-oh-three is quite sufficient.
lol!
.
I'm willing to bet that the 303 has taken more Polar Bears than any other calibre, the Lee-Enfield is one of the few rifles that will function reliably in the far North, hence the issue to Rangers, and the wide use of them by Inuit hunters. In fact it's pretty safe to assume that if it can be killed, you're not going to be the first person to kill it with a 303.
In Canada a used Enfield .303 that has been already been cut down would be a good choice with the plus of having gunsmiths who know what they are looking at.(its your national rifle) In the U.S. I would lean toward a Stevens 200 or possibly the Marlin or Mossberg clones. With a new rifle you will not have a frosted and pitted bore and it will come tapped for scope mounts.
If push comes to shove and the weather is nasty outside my under $300.00 Stevens 200 is the one that going out in the rain and snow and NOT one of my prized Enfields. Plus if you reload your case life will be better with a standard civilian SAAMI chamber and civilian commercial cases and calibers.
If push comes to shove and the weather is nasty outside my under $300.00 Stevens 200 is the one that going out in the rain and snow and NOT one of my prized Enfields. Plus if you reload your case life will be better with a standard civilian SAAMI chamber and civilian commercial cases and calibers.
thanks for all the help guys, ive found an enfield owned by one of my co-workers and im planning on buying it, but im thinking on getting a sport stock, possibly synthetic for hunting with (where i hunt requires hours of walking) i have a 30-30 now but would like something heavier, and i thing the .303 would be perfect. any downfall to sport stocks?
