.303 vs.308

Watsknew - The 303 was designed with a much faster twist than the average 308, giving it the opportunity to launch heavier bullets.(200 gr vs 150)
On the subject of milspec, be assured that the quality assurance program for LE's was much more rigorous that Savage. Heck, Savage doesnt appear to be IS0 certified - whats with that?
I wonder how many Savage 200's are going to be around in 70 years...

AGD... - Glad to see you've come to your senses...
 
Eagleye said:
The two cases [303 Brit & the 308 Win] have identical capacities, so that should tell you what the real difference is....zip! The limiting factor for the 303is the rifle it is chambered in [Lee-Enfields tend to be a bit "springy"], and some will bring up the fact that it is a "rimmed" case, which can be a detriment to feeding from certain magazines. In a front locking bolt action like the P14's, the 303 can be loaded to equal the 308 without any issues. I have a couple of these, and have found that 308 data works great. the .003" bullet diameter difference is a non-issue. One thing that will plague the reloader is the lack of a really good bullet selection for the 303 British, whereas the 308 has an endless variety available. The bottom line is, within 300 yards, no game animal can tell the difference of a 180 grain bullet at 2500 or 2650 fps. If your 303 is working well for you, keep using it. If you feel you need an upgrade, then buy what suits your fancy. Regards, Eagleye.
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Totally nailed it. :cool:
 
Eagleye said:
The two cases [303 Brit & the 308 Win] have identical capacities, so that should tell you what the real difference is....zip! The limiting factor for the 303is the rifle it is chambered in [Lee-Enfields tend to be a bit "springy"], and some will bring up the fact that it is a "rimmed" case, which can be a detriment to feeding from certain magazines. In a front locking bolt action like the P14's, the 303 can be loaded to equal the 308 without any issues. I have a couple of these, and have found that 308 data works great. the .003" bullet diameter difference is a non-issue. One thing that will plague the reloader is the lack of a really good bullet selection for the 303 British, whereas the 308 has an endless variety available. The bottom line is, within 300 yards, no game animal can tell the difference of a 180 grain bullet at 2500 or 2650 fps. If your 303 is working well for you, keep using it. If you feel you need an upgrade, then buy what suits your fancy. Regards, Eagleye.
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Words of wisdom from an experienced shooter. Well stated EE...:wave:
 
And I have a box of Federal High Energy Rounds in 180gr Trophy Bonded Bear claws... for the 303 sitting here.... With a muzzle velocity of 2590.... and yes, they are .311 diameter...

Got a box of them for 15 bucks when I was living down in the states a few years back.... too bad they don't make them anymore....Should have picked up 5 boxes......

Now, if I only had a 303 and a Moose....
 
RRCo. said:
Much as I like the good old .303, the .308 has a much flatter trajectory IIRC.
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???? :confused: Trust me, If you take a 150 grain .311" diameter bullet and a 150 grain .308 diameter bullet, and drive them both to 2800 fps, the difference in trajectory will not be noticeable in the field. Eagleye.
 
The issue is not the cartridge but the rifles they are chambered for. The Lee Enfield was built to mil-spec, but during war time that spec allowed some pretty generous tolerances. I'm not a fan of the LE 2 groove barrel, they foul badly due to the wide lands, and I've never seen one that will shoot well. On the other hand I have seen and shot some LE #4's that would produce MOA with factory ammo, but they are the exception rather than the rule. As Eagleye pointed out, the LE rifle is the limiting factor in regard to the .303's ballistic potential. The problem is that the LE is the most common platform we have to access the .303 cartridge. It is all but impossible to find a modern rifle chambered for this cartridge, while .308's are common. As said earlier, the .303 suffers from a lack in choice of quality bullets, but this is not as serious a concern as might be thought, in that there are good 125, 150, 180, 200 & 215 grain jacketed hunting bullets available, a 174 gr match bullet and a whole whack of cast designs. While you might not be able to find a .311 TSX, bullets suitable for most jobs can be had. If you are interested in a .308 bolt gun that is as tough as the LE, it only requires money. A .308 custom rifle that exceeds the toughness, accuracy, power (due to the limitations of the LE), has better sights, a better trigger, and comes in at 2/3rds of the weight of the LE is only an order away.
 
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Boomer said:
While you might not be able to find a .311 TSX, bullets suitable for most jobs can be had.
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I'm not sure on availability yet, but Barnes actually introduced a 150 gr .311 TSX for the .303 within the last year, along with a 123 or 125 gr TSX for the 7.62X39.
 
HairTrigger said:
Can anyone explain the whole "rimmed case" deal?
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There are a couple of problems with a rimmed round, specifically the 303 BR.

If you get the rim of one round in the magazine behind the rim of the round below it, the top round will not feed into the magazine and you will have to reach in with a finger to physically extract the round...try that when your hands are cold and the moose is heading for the trees. Most likely you will have to remove the magazine to do this.

Another problem is the rifle headspaces on the rim...the rest of the case is not in full contact with the chamber. When you fire the round the case expands to the size of the chamber. Most reloaders "neck size" or do not fully size the case back to a nominal dimension during reloading. Full length resizing will eventually allow the case to "Grow" or stretch (longer.) This leads to two bad things...the case gets thinner and thinner right above the base of the case and will eventually break, leaving the upper half of the case in the chamber. On the times I have had this happen I have not noticed any escaping combustion out of the chamber nor have I had a problem getting the upper case half out of the chamber, although both of these are possible.

One other thing that can happen if you full length size and the case grows is that the case might stretch so much that the case actually enters the rifling in the barrel. This would result in a difficult time closing the bolt as you would have to crush the case to close the bolt completely. Firing the rifle in this condition could result in a much higher chamber pressure.

If you don't reload then none of the case sizing problems apply except to the guy who picks up the brass you leave behind.
 
Well - The case sizing issues with the 303 BR you describe above are not due to the fact that it is a rimmed case, its due to the fact that the dies are made to a commercial spec, and most rifles are to the military chamber spec, which is substantially larger.
If you have a 303 with a commercial chamber, (I do) then you can size it like any other case, and expect the same case life. For rifles with the military chamber, skillful partial resizing will give satisfactory case life, and allow you to use the ammo in several rifles. I've shot 303 for years, and never had a case failure, and never had the case jam in the rifling (I trim every other resize, just like my non rimmed cartridges.)
Note to self - stop pumping the 303, it may fall into fashion once again. Yikes, imagine Jim Shockey dropping the TC...

Did I mention that the Stevens 200 in 308 is a helluva rifle!
 
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cosmic said:
Well - The case sizing issues with the 303 BR you describe above are not due to the fact that it is a rimmed case, its due to the fact that the dies are made to a commercial spec, and most rifles are to the military chamber spec, which is substantially larger.
If you have a 303 with a commercial chamber, (I do) then you can size it like any other case, and expect the same case life. For rifles with the military chamber, skillful partial resizing will give satisfactory case life, and allow you to use the ammo in several rifles. I've shot 303 for years, and never had a case failure, and never had the case jam in the rifling (I trim every other resize, just like my non rimmed cartridges.)
Note to self - stop pumping the 303, it may fall into fashion once again. Yikes, imagine Jim Shockey dropping the TC...

Did I mention that the Stevens 200 in 308 is a helluva rifle!
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Hey,the .303 never fell outta fashion, where have you bin???:D
 
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