303Carbine's Yugo M-48 8mm mauser

My friend, I have to say it's a strong argument.



Deano said:
I made no "definitions", nor did I speculate on what types of firearms go into this forum, and what types do not. I simply stated two facts. Those facts are valid, and you have made no vaild counterargument to dispute my facts. You have made a fallacious, (red herring), counter argument that lacks validity.

1. The rifle belongs to 303 carbine, yes? He did a good job on his work, so I would not call him a "bubba". Is he entitled to do whatever he likes with the rifle? Of course, it belongs to him. He can paint it pink for all I care.

2. This forum is a Milsurp forum, yes? Dedicated to collecting millsurps? Coming here to show off a sporter job is going to piss off the locals, so to speak. My point, which you ignore, is simply that coming on to the forum to show off the sporter job is going to elicit that particular respnonse. Plain and simple. I made no judgements in my original post, I stated facts.

No to argue against your analogy about collectibles and hobbies, you use motocycles and houses as an analogy. To counter that, I would say that you are partially correct. People do improve homes and motorcycles. Where you err, is on the chosen place to show off your work. If this was the gunsmithing forum, then showing the addition of a scope and bipod would certainly not elicit any type of negative response. Using your motorcycle analogy, lets pretend that a fellow with a Harley Davidson bike wen onto a web forum that was dedicated to the restoration and collection of Harley Davidson motorcycles and told all the members about how he had added a Honda engine and Suzuki parts to his vintage Harley, including pics. What type of response do you think this would elicit? What if the web forum was a simple repair/restore site, not a harley collectors site? I would think, reasonably, that the collectors would get pissed off, but the repair/mechanic folks wouldn't care. YOur analogy is not really valid, is it? You cannot compare a milsurp collectors forum to a general repair (gunsmithing) forum. They are not the same. Similarly, you cannot compare a motorcycle repair site to a motorcycle collector site. One type are "purists" and the oter type are "fixer/improvers". My advice, for what it is worth, would have been to post this pic in the gunsmithing forum. I'm sure that the response would have been much better, and anybody who whined about "altering a milsurp" could have been rightly told to bugger off.
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I see. Thanks.

Skippy said:
Michaelsabre,
No one is questioning whether or not a bubba-job "belongs here". They're just pointing out that it shouldn't br a surprise when the culprit is criticized.
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michaelsabre said:
My friend, I have to say it's a strong argument.

However, you stated "nor did I speculate on what types of firearms go into this forum, and what types do not", then you said "anybody who whined about "altering a milsurp" could have been rightly told to bugger off".

Don't fit into each other.:p
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Ah, you do not read my entire post, my freind. I prefaced that statement with "My advice, for what it's worth". My argument is completely valid. My advice, whcih I freely admit, is with 20/20 hindsight, is that the pics should have been posted in the gunsmithing forum in the first place. That way, if there were any milsurp pursits types lurking there, (we do, from time to time, look and post in other forums) who would have made some type of comment about about altering a milsurp, 303 carbine could have, with justification, since it is a gunsmithing forum, and by that definition, all about gunsmithing, altering, sporterizing, etc., told the purist type, something along the lines of "bugger off, this is a gunsmithing forum."

Once again, you miss the point and only selct a portion of my entire posting and argue against it. This is also a fallacy of logic, called a straw man argument. You take my advice, whcih is given at the end of my valid argument, and you purport to poke holes in my argument with that advice. The advice was not part of my argument. In essence, you take my advice, and build a straw man out of it and then blow it down. This is the straw man fallacy, and it is not a valid argument.

If you have a valid argument against my point, then please proceed. In case you missed it, and I think you have, my point is that posting about sporterizing here is going to piss off the locals. Simple.
 
I love it...nothing personal but just fun time for my lunch break.

"Once again, you miss the point and only selct a portion of my entire posting and argue against it. This is also a fallacy of logic, called a straw man argument."

Of course I am not going to argue you entire posting because I agree with most of it!! And I don't agree a portion of your posting so I pick that part out.

The bottom line is I support modification on low cost firearms as long as it's safe. Hands on experience can enhance understanding and one day we will get another Mr. Browning.

Your turn please.



Deano said:
Ah, you do not read my entire post, my freind. I prefaced that statement with "My advice, for what it's worth". My argument is completely valid. My advice, whcih I freely admit, is with 20/20 hindsight, is that the pics should have been posted in the gunsmithing forum in the first place. That way, if there were any milsurp pursits types lurking there, (we do, from time to time, look and post in other forums) who would have made some type of comment about about altering a milsurp, 303 carbine could have, with justification, since it is a gunsmithing forum, and by that definition, all about gunsmithing, altering, sporterizing, etc., told the purist type, something along the lines of "bugger off, this is a gunsmithing forum."

Once again, you miss the point and only selct a portion of my entire posting and argue against it. This is also a fallacy of logic, called a straw man argument. You take my advice, whcih is given at the end of my valid argument, and you purport to poke holes in my argument with that advice. The advice was not part of my argument. In essence, you take my advice, and build a straw man out of it and then blow it down. This is the straw man fallacy, and it is not a valid argument.

If you have a valid argument against my point, then please proceed. In case you missed it, and I think you have, my point is that posting about sporterizing here is going to piss off the locals. Simple.
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milsurp

For the purists its a "bubba" but for me its functional and as stated before the Yugo rifles are not collectible to me. The work was all done by a competent gunsmith so safety is not an issue. :) I would not do such alterations to a "collectible" Mauser or especially my Enfields. :p To those holier than thou who cringe at it ....don't look.:D
 
The bottom line is I support modification on low cost firearms as long as it's safe. Hands on experience can enhance understanding and one day we will get another Mr. Browning.

Your turn please.
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Once again, you are missing the point. You have misconstrued my advice, namely, this should have been posted in another forum, and come to the (false) conclusion that i am against modifying military rifles. This is simply not the case. In fact, I specifically stated in an earlier post

The rifle belongs to 303 carbine, yes? He did a good job on his work, so I would not call him a "bubba". Is he entitled to do whatever he likes with the rifle? Of course, it belongs to him. He can paint it pink for all I care.
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I would never, under any circumstances, deny anyone's right to treat their property how they wish. However, my point, which is consistently missed by you, is that to come on this particular forum and brag about it is like waving a red flag in front of a bull, and I stand by that. The issue is not about home gunsmithing, it is about respect and politeness. I personally know some very talented home gunsmiths. Out of respect for the members of this forum, I would discourage any member from showing a sporterizing project here, as all it does is piss folks off. Someone who makes posts that deliberately inflame others on internet boards such as this are known as trolls and trolling is considered quite rude. In this particular case, I would not say rude, nor would I say 303 carbine was trolling, as I don't think 303 carbine was intentionally trying to piss anyone off, rather, he just didn't know he would create a bit of a sh*tstorm. He innocently showed off something that he was proud of.

My question to you is this:

With perfect hindsight, do you think 303 carbine would have been better off posting this in the milsurp forum or the gunsmithing forum?

No one here questioned his talent, just his decision. Knowing the nature of this particular forum (milsurp colectors), this exposed 303 carbine to criticism. Had he posted this in the gunsmithing forum, he would have been immune to such criticism, don't you think? There, his post would have been one of many on this type of topic. Sporterizing milsurps is common practice, and gunsmiths the world over do it.

It boils down to this. Make your posting here, after all, it is a milsurp rifle, and suffer the ignominious slagging from a bunch of milsurp purists.

or

Make the posting in gunsmithing, and probably get complimented on what a nice job he did, and maybe, a few good ideas as well. Plus, you can tell anyone who complains to hit the bricks, and be justified in doing so.
 
PS: Perhaps you should have posted this in the hunting forum. You know how anal milsurp guys can get about drilling and tapping ex-service rifles.
 
milsurp

Well now I'm going to have to buy back my 7.62 2A1 and drill it for a scope, of course the wood will have to be hacksawed and some elcheapo checkering will have to be done. Of course pis will be added in the gunsmithing section of course.:rolleyes: Then the bayo will then have be attached with the handyman's secret weapon......duct tape.:) Since its a new and improved rifle can use .311 diameter bullets instead of .308
 
303carbine said:
For the purists its a "bubba" but for me its functional and as stated before the Yugo rifles are not collectible to me. The work was all done by a competent gunsmith so safety is not an issue. :) I would not do such alterations to a "collectible" Mauser or especially my Enfields. :p To those holier than thou who cringe at it ....don't look.:D
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I guess you don't care about "money" or "value" either?:confused:
 
This discussion is going somewhere.

I observed that we agreed on most points however can't agree that this forum opens to milsurp activities other than "collecting" or not.

The word "milsurp" -- yes, it means "military surplus". This Yogu is a surplus gun.

On Milsurp forum, we discuss anything related to military surplus gun -- hunting, repairing, improvement, value, dealer and so on so on.

Regards,

Sabre



Deano said:
Once again, you are missing the point. You have misconstrued my advice, namely, this should have been posted in another forum, and come to the (false) conclusion that i am against modifying military rifles. This is simply not the case. In fact, I specifically stated in an earlier post



I would never, under any circumstances, deny anyone's right to treat their property how they wish. However, my point, which is consistently missed by you, is that to come on this particular forum and brag about it is like waving a red flag in front of a bull, and I stand by that. The issue is not about home gunsmithing, it is about respect and politeness. I personally know some very talented home gunsmiths. Out of respect for the members of this forum, I would discourage any member from showing a sporterizing project here, as all it does is piss folks off. Someone who makes posts that deliberately inflame others on internet boards such as this are known as trolls and trolling is considered quite rude. In this particular case, I would not say rude, nor would I say 303 carbine was trolling, as I don't think 303 carbine was intentionally trying to piss anyone off, rather, he just didn't know he would create a bit of a sh*tstorm. He innocently showed off something that he was proud of.

My question to you is this:

With perfect hindsight, do you think 303 carbine would have been better off posting this in the milsurp forum or the gunsmithing forum?

No one here questioned his talent, just his decision. Knowing the nature of this particular forum (milsurp colectors), this exposed 303 carbine to criticism. Had he posted this in the gunsmithing forum, he would have been immune to such criticism, don't you think? There, his post would have been one of many on this type of topic. Sporterizing milsurps is common practice, and gunsmiths the world over do it.

It boils down to this. Make your posting here, after all, it is a milsurp rifle, and suffer the ignominious slagging from a bunch of milsurp purists.

or

Make the posting in gunsmithing, and probably get complimented on what a nice job he did, and maybe, a few good ideas as well. Plus, you can tell anyone who complains to hit the bricks, and be justified in doing so.
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Andy said:
I say the Yugos are "collectible", and do have "historical value". You have taken a $400 gun, added $300 or so to it and made it a $300 gun - your business.
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+1 ........ :)

303carbine said:
For the purists its a "bubba" but for me its functional and as stated before the Yugo rifles are not collectible to me. The work was all done by a competent gunsmith so safety is not an issue. :) I would not do such alterations to a "collectible" Mauser or especially my Enfields. :p To those holier than thou who cringe at it ....don't look.:D
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It's your rifle partner and in my opinion, you can do anything you freakin want with it, however, if any kind of return on an investment was your goal, then Andy is right on the mark. From an economics point of view, it was probably not the best choice of rifle to sporterize. :D

michaelsabre said:
I love it...nothing personal but just fun time for my lunch break. .............. Your turn please.
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michaelsabre said:
This discussion is going somewhere. I observed that we agreed on most points however can't agree that this forum opens to milsurp activities other than "collecting" or not. The word "milsurp" -- yes, it means "military surplus". This Yogu is a surplus gun. On Milsurp forum, we discuss anything related to military surplus gun -- hunting, repairing, improvement, value, dealer and so on so on. ..........
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So what is it now? You're working on everyone to lather them up for some breakfast fun?

Judging from reading your overall posting body of work on CGN, you're relatively new to firearms. If you want to troll for sport to demonstrate your academic prowess and literary repartee skills, then the CGN "OT" forum is the preferred arena to get a rise out of folks for personal entertainment. ;)

You're obviously an intelligent guy and you really do know exactly what this forum's content is about, so please step back and participate in a healthier way. Thanks. :)

FOR EVERYONE ELSE.........

These kind of pseudo religious discussions are a waste of electronic white space, so please stay focused and not rise to the bait .......... :D

Thanks.......

Regards,
Badger
 
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Fine, respect the opinion of majority. Please enjoy the hobby and have fun. ;)


BadgerDog said:
+1 ........ :)


you really do know exactly what this forum's content is about, so please step back and participate in a healthier way. Thanks. :)

FOR EVERYONE ELSE.........

These kind of pseudo religious discussions are a waste of electronic white space, so please stay focused and not rise to the bait .......... :D

Thanks.......

Regards,
Badger
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Good thing the powers that be never made me a mod, or this thread would have been SOOOOO locked after about post No. 7 or 8 ;)

Can we all go back to being friends now?
 
We are always friends, just don't agree with each other once a while:D

Regards,

Sabre


Claven2 said:
Good thing the powers that be never made me a mod, or this thread would have been SOOOOO locked after about post No. 7 or 8 ;)

Can we all go back to being friends now?
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m-48

I realize that gunnutz are passionate about their milsurp rifles and thats good, and if I want to make a $400 into a $300 gun then thats my right to do that. I didn't do it to start a pissing match I did it to make a functional hunting rifle without the regard for what its supposed to be worth as I have no intention on selling. Its a milsurp rifle and I will post it where I want without any soup nazi's trying to push whatever views on me. If you don't like the rifle thats not my problem and be glad then that its not yours.
Signed, Happy 8mm Shooter.:)
 
I am somewhat curious, why an m48? Dying to hunt with 8mm? I know there aren't a whole lot of 8mm hunting rifles new but why not something already D&T ?
 
I just read this entire thread and I would like the last 20 minutes of my life back, please...

Well, here's my take on this:

- There are lots of these around for cheap and will be for many years.
- Are they collectible? Sure. So are pop cans and belly button lint.

Hey, man, whatever floats your boat. I can think of much better modern rifles to put a scope and bipod on to go hunting with but if you think slugging a big, heavy old milsurp around is worth the cool factor, so be it.

Personally, I think it looks ridiculous. :p
 
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