.308 -> .30-06?

*MALICE*

*MALICE*

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If one had a rifle chambered in .308 winchester, on an action long enough to accomodate a .30-06 cartridge, would a chamber reamer be able to cut the new .30-06 chamber from the .308 chamber and clean it completely?
Basically, does the .308 cartridge "fit inside" the .30-06 cartridge?

thanks
 
Essentially yes.

At one point the US Navy wanted to shoot 7.62x51 NATO ammo in their 30-06 Garands. Their solution was a little sleeve that compensated for the shorter shoulder and the slightly smaller diameter body near the shoulder. It was a clever idea, thought up by a cheapskate, but it was found to be too inaccurate for serious adoption.
 
*MALICE* said:
I thought the .308 was just a shortened .30-06.........perhaps not..?
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The .308/7.62 NATO was designed to be able to fire in a .30-06 chamber, with no adapter needed under extreme emergency situations. This means it is fatter, in order to stop in the '06 chamber at the correct depth for it to fire properly. This may or may not occur with sporting rifles, due to tolerances in chamber and ammunition dimensions. Doing so is meant for emergency use, such as during a war when you are out of '06 ammo with plenty of .308. The case will be deformed upon firing and may or may not be safe.

DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS AT HOME!!! .308 and .30-06 are not interchangeable.
 
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TimberPig said:
The .308/7.62 NATO was designed to be able to safely fire in a .30-06 chamber, with no adapter needed. This means it is fatter, in order to stop in the '06 chamber at the correct depth for it to fire properly. Doing so is meant for emergency use, such as during a war when you are out of '06 ammo with plenty of .308. The case will be deformed, but it will seal and fire safely.
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There is so much wrong with that statement its hard to know where to begin. Certainly in war emergencies all sorts of things might be attempted, but I doubt if firing a .308 cartridge in a .30/06 rifle would be successful nor commonly attempted. Aside from a whole range of problems this would create, the head space difference of the two cartridges a difference approaching a half inch would certainly make feeding and ignition interesting. The .308 round is fatter than the '06, so chances are that the round will not chamber anyway, it doesn't in my Brno, but it could in a war production gas gun or MG I suppose. It is reasonable to say that the only ammunition that should be fired is the ammunition that a particular rifle is chambered for.
 
Boomer said:
There is so much wrong with that statement its hard to know where to begin. Certainly in war emergencies all sorts of things might be attempted, but I doubt if firing a .308 cartridge in a .30/06 rifle would be successful nor commonly attempted. Aside from a whole range of problems this would create, the head space difference of the two cartridges a difference approaching a half inch would certainly make feeding and ignition interesting. The .308 round is fatter than the '06, so chances are that the round will not chamber anyway, it doesn't in my Brno, but it could in a war production gas gun or MG I suppose. It is reasonable to say that the only ammunition that should be fired is the ammunition that a particular rifle is chambered for.
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Your missing the point
it is fatter at the point were it will force the head of the cartridge onto the bolt face upon closing creating a safe headspace
it will chamber and fire like Timberpeg said
 
Firing .308 in 30-06 ?????

TimberPig said:
The .308/7.62 NATO was designed to be able to safely fire in a .30-06 chamber, with no adapter needed. This means it is fatter, in order to stop in the '06 chamber at the correct depth for it to fire properly. Doing so is meant for emergency use, such as during a war when you are out of '06 ammo with plenty of .308. The case will be deformed, but it will seal and fire safely.
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The disinformation net strikes again.

I absolutely agree with BOOMER, in that there is so much wrong with this statement that you do not know where to begin.

When you fire a .308, you have about 55,000 PSI, located 6 inches in front of your nose. If your rifle bolt pushes it in too far, you have created a dangerous excess headspace situation. As far as the brass sealing securely, it may, and it may not. This can blow primers, and allow gas to escape backwards toward your face. When a cartridge is in a proper chamber, the neck is supported, and since the neck is usually thinner than the body, it seals to the chamber walls better. You would have approximately 1/2 inch of UNSUPPORTED bullet that would have to travel in air BEFORE it entered the neck of a 30-06 chamber.

Once again, dangerous and ill informed information has created a possible situation for disaster, injury, or death.

There are also slight dimensional differences between .308 Winchester, and 7.62 NATO rounds.

Perhaps TIMBERPIG can provide at least three written references to back up his statements. There are a lot of "old wives tales" and "bulls**t" on the Internet, and general folklore passed on over the ages. I would like to see some COMPETENT authorities, in published articles, state that the .308 can be safely fired in the 30-06.

Meanwhile, as a Gunsmith, and a graduate of several Military Armourers courses, I sure as hell am NOT going to try it. I value my sight too much.
.
 
TimberPig said:
The .308/7.62 NATO was designed to be able to safely fire in a .30-06 chamber, with no adapter needed. This means it is fatter, in order to stop in the '06 chamber at the correct depth for it to fire properly. Doing so is meant for emergency use, such as during a war when you are out of '06 ammo with plenty of .308. The case will be deformed, but it will seal and fire safely.
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TimberPig,

This is a very interesting statement...
What is the source for this information?
 
Malice asked the following question:

Can a .308 chamber be opened to fire .30-06?

To which I answered, essentially yes.

Then the bun fight erupted.

Fellas, go to the references and read the numbers in inches (from Cartridges of the World 9th Ed. pgs 56 and 57; in three columns, .308, .30-06, difference in favour of .30-06):

Bullet diameter .308, .308, no change
Neck diameter .343, .340, - .003
Shoulder diameter .454, .441, - .013
Distance base to shoulder 1.560, 1.948, +.388 (that's about 7/16")
Base diameter .473, .473, no change
Case length 2.015, 2.494, + .479
Overall length 2.75, 3.34, +.59

The one place the .308 does not fit inside the .30-06 is the shoulder diameter, and the measurements above are not at the same distance from the base. The .308 is nearly cylindrical while the .30-06 is a long taper. Therefore, fired cases will have two shoulders. One will be a ring about 1.5" from the base, then the expected .30-06 shoulder 2" from the base. When I said a .308 chamber could be opened to fire a .30-06, the answer is mathematicaly yes, but esthetically no. And forget about reusing those cases in any other rifle.

The easier solution is to remove the barrel, cut off at least .388" from the breech and cut a new clean chamber in solid steel.
 
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well , boy's i've DONE IT- FIRED A 308 IN A '06 CHAMBER BY ACCIDENT-not only WILL IT CHAMBER AND EASILY, but the case comes out looking like a RIMLESS 444 MARLIN- the shoulder blows forward b/c there's no chamber wall to stop it for another half inch- this was in a BRAZILIAN mauser, PROPERLY CHAMBERED FOR "06- I WAS SHOOTING BOTH CALIBERS AND HAD A SEPERATE POCKET FOR EACH- somehow they got switched- and ONCE IS ENOUGH-great big BOOM -i've since gotten rid of all my"06s and gone with 308- it's slightly cheaper on powder, does the same job roughlym and i just sneak a little closer
AND I CARRY ONLY ONE GUN AND AMMO at a time now
 
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Since I have been unable to relocate my sources upon a review of my materials here, I will modify my statement, and would request the attack police remove the quote from theirs as well. There is enough misinformation on the internet as it is, so since I cannot verify it in print, I will remove it.
 
t-star said:
well , boy's i've DONE IT- FIRED A 308 IN A '06 CHAMBER BY ACCIDENT-not only WILL IT CHAMBER AND EASILY, but the case comes out looking like a RIMLESS 444 MARLIN- the shoulder blows forward b/c there's no chamber wall to stop it for another half inch- this was in a BRAZILIAN mauser, PROPERLY CHAMBERED FOR "06- I WAS SHOOTING BOTH CALIBERS AND HAD A SEPERATE POCKET FOR EACH- somehow they got switched- and ONCE IS ENOUGH-great big BOOM -i've since gotten rid of all my"06s and gone with 308- it's slightly cheaper on powder, does the same job roughlym and i just sneak a little closer
AND I CARRY ONLY ONE GUN AND AMMO at a time now
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As I said, it is possible to do this if your '06 chamber is out of spec.

Was the design of the .308 cartridge or the 7.62X51 Nato cartridge intended to be interchangeable with or be used in a .30/06 caliber rifle?

NO!

With the exception of fire forming loads, is it safe to fire rounds in a chamber other than those for which the rifle is chambered?

No!
 
t-star said:
well , boy's i've DONE IT- FIRED A 308 IN A '06 CHAMBER BY ACCIDENT-not only WILL IT CHAMBER AND EASILY, but the case comes out looking like a RIMLESS 444 MARLIN- the shoulder blows forward b/c there's no chamber wall to stop it for another half inch- this was in a BRAZILIAN mauser, PROPERLY CHAMBERED FOR "06- I WAS SHOOTING BOTH CALIBERS AND HAD A SEPERATE POCKET FOR EACH- somehow they got switched- and ONCE IS ENOUGH-great big BOOM -i've since gotten rid of all my"06s and gone with 308- it's slightly cheaper on powder, does the same job roughlym and i just sneak a little closer
AND I CARRY ONLY ONE GUN AND AMMO at a time now
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Yes i can see this Working for Two Reasons.

1st ...I have a 30 06 FN 49 a 308 Nato round goes in and Fits perfect tight without going in to far it head spaces perfect.

2nd... I found theses Weird 308 Cases at the Range that Look like 444 Marlins but the head stamp was 308.

So i think Timberpigs frist post was Correct. It can be done and is being done.
Im not gona try it in my 30 06 tho but if 308 was all i had in and Emergency id try it then.
 
"...found to be too inaccurate for serious adoption..." The inserts had and have a tendency to come out upon extraction. Accuracy had nothing to do with it. The inserts didn't and don't work.
"...a 308 Nato round goes in..." Of course it does. It's a half inch shorter. There is a half inch of excessive headspace though. Both cartridges headspace on the shoulder.
 
A .308 case may or may not chamber in a 30-06 chamber... it depends hoe sloppy the 06 chamber is.

I know if I chamber a 30-06 barrel with my reamer, you will not chamber a normal .308 case in it, because the case is too fat for a minimum 08 chamber. Measure the two chambering reamers and you will confirm that.

Lots of military firearms do different things with military ammo.

Why anyone would want to shoot an incorrect cartridge in a rifle is beyond me. Accidentally I can see it happening but that is also what blows some guns up... like a 30-30 shell in a .270 Winchester - it chambers and usually blows the action up.
 
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