.308 Barnes tsx in 180 grn

[Gatehouse]

Right on great info guys!I guess now I have some 180's to go onto the EE.

Longshot, I've used TSX and TTSX bullets quite a bit. I really wouldn't hesitate to use a 130gr TTSX in a .308 for moose or elk. At the largest, I'd stick a 150gr TTSX in the .308.

These bullets thrive on velocity, and thier beauty is that they don't lose as much weight as traditional bullets.

A Nosler Partition will lose 35-40% of it's weight soon after impacting game, so a standard .308 with a 165gr NP will shed about 55-60gr of weigth upon impact and turn your bullet into a 110gr bullet, while the TTSX will hold 90% or more of weight.

The front of the partition sure does stuff, but it's the rear end that carries on.

Because the TSX expands and retains weight, they penetrate deeper and the "mushroom" keeps ripping up the vitals. Almost all the shots I've taken with TSX or TTSX bullets have dropped animals in thier tracks or very quickly afterward.

In the old days we wanted heavier cup and core bullets so they would penetrate, while losing weight. Nowdays, they hold weight..

Put a TTSX bullet through both lungs and the elk will die.

 

[Gatehouse]

Here is some TTX reading+

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=251524

 

[Gatehouse]

After input and urging from a few, I'm in the initial stages of change over to todays bullet technology, Barnes TTSX, in three calibers. I look forward to load development, the accuracy and the results on game. I've got a moderate range of bullet weights in 7mm and 30 cal to start out with.

?

Initial stages? My gawd man, you started talking about this last March! Get on it, you will be happy with the TTSX performance!

Ungulate Hunting season only lasts a few more weeks!

 

[Johnn Peterson]

Initial stages? My gawd man, you started talking about this last March! Get on it, you will be happy with the TTSX performance!

Ungulate Hunting season only lasts a few more weeks!

Well, if you're really interested, my decission to go the Barnes route actually started before March. The idea started last fall, 2008, as a result of my Mule Deer hunt in AB with my Daughter & Son In Law. This March I got somewhat more committed to going to Barnes TTSX, looked into Barnes in a bit more depth and started gathering input and info from a few individuals with experience in using them. Part of 'this' has entailed gathering info and coming up with loads for calibers not listed in the Barnes manual. This mid July to mid August, while visiting in AB, I inquired around and ended up making arrangements through Bashaw Sports in AB for a sizeable 'selection' of 7mm, 30 cal Barnes TTSX and 348 Barnes originals.

So, have I started working up loads? Yes. Have I got a final load that I'm satisfied with, in either of the three calibers I'm going to Barnes in? 30-06, close, 7x61 S&H and 308NM, a ways to go yet which is why I consider being still in the initial stages. In addition, there's a few other calibers/firearms I've been shooting and reloading for so if I'm not moving ahead fast enough to meet your satisfaction............

With other ammo I've been reloading and shooting for years, if I find need to go out before the 'ungulate' season ends this year, and if I haven't developed a TTSX load I'm satisfied with I'm sure my existing ammo will be up to the task, again, still.

 

[Gatehouse]

Well, if you're really interested, my decission to go the Barnes route actually started before March. The idea started last fall, 2008, as a result of my Mule Deer hunt in AB with my Daughter & Son In Law. .

What about that hunt made you interested? Was someone else using them and you were impressed by the performance? Did you experience some sort of bullet failure?

 

[Satain]

My triple shocks after 50 meter's would open up due to the extreme muzzle velocity and after 100 would completly seperate. But once I dropped the speed they worked great. On a side note, if you ever plan on going sheep hunting in B.C. try there long range triple shock bullet's called "Tipped TSX"

 

[Johnn Peterson]

What about that hunt made you interested? Was someone else using them and you were impressed by the performance? Did you experience some sort of bullet failure?

In a few calibers, a make and style that has proven to be excellent accuracy wise and a reliable performer on game for me has been the Sierra GameKing or SBT. Two examples of this accuracy are
1/ A three shot group measuring 0.486", shot @ 185 yds with my 25-06 using 117gr Sierra SBT, witnessed.
2/ A five shot group measuring 1.061" (minus 1 as flyer, 0.722"), shot @ 100 yds with my 308NM using 200gr SBT.

On our hunt last year what came about or made me interested was the 'noticeable' difference in damaged or blood shot meat. My Daughter and I were both successful on our Mule Deer draws, and we both hit our animals in virtually the same spot, high in the mid back area. I was using my 308NM with the 200gr Sierra's and she was using a 300WSM with 180gr Barnes TTSX's. I'm guessing it was because of the lead fragmentation of my Sierra's but the amount of lost meat was close to double. I'm more of a deep freeze hunter than a trophy hunter so................. In primarily three calibers, I'm going with the Barnes TTSX. Now, it just a matter of which bullet weight and load I can get the best accuracy with.

 

[Gatehouse]

I shot a blacktail buck the other day with 150gr TTSX @3300fps from my 300WSM, at 58 yards. So if you were going ot get bloodshot meat, a bullet going that speed would be the one to do it. I was shooting at a reasonably steep angle, and hit him in the top of the right shoulder.

The bullet went in and expanded immediately after piercing the hide (no pics of that but it was evident after skinning)


The bullet went down and out the brisket in front of the left armpit.

There was some bloodshot meat of course, but not much, less than I expected after hitting the shoulder.

If I had been using a more frangible bullet at that speed, I'd have expected to lose most of the front shoulder. One of the reasons I don't use super frangible bullets anymore!

 

[Satain]

Ya I lost half of the front left sholder cause I was using a lot slower rate, aka 308 win. But on the other hand it put him down in one shot and I didn't have to track him. Some meat in the frezzer is alot better than none!

 

[chemo]

I didnt use banres, but used nosler 180gr this year, if the question is solely about 180gr bullets in 308win

despite all the "180gr is too heavy for 308win" I decided to have at it. At the range I had good results. Not amazing but good.
Loaded with fireformed win brass results were best with 42.0gr of h4895. I only had 50 of them anyway. I developped load with 42, had 8 left to go hunting and I used one, I got my moose with it. Bullet came in, broke a rib, blew heart out and came out, no sharpnel inside other than the broken rib. She went down before she even reliazed what hit her. The shot was under 100yard.


As per everyone's suggestion though I will go lighter next year

 

[Johnn Peterson]

Ya I lost half of the front left sholder cause I was using a lot slower rate, aka 308 win. But on the other hand it put him down in one shot and I didn't have to track him. Some meat in the frezzer is alot better than none!

As I've admitted, my getting in tune with todays bullet technology has taken a while. Part of the reason for the delay was to do with checking out what's new and from the info recieved, deciding which product to 'go for'. My three primary governing criteria were/are;

• Comparable or better accuracy
• Comparable or better killing power
• With LESS meat loss.

From a number of people and sources that I asked and/or researched information from, the 'pick of the litter' choice appeared to be Barnes so that's the choice I decided on. From info guys have sent me, most of which has been first hand experience, I gather accuracy is good, killing power as good or better, usually better penetration and considerably less meat loss. A little more work to do on load tests/trials and then to field trial.

I have in past used, most noteably, Nosler partitions and Speer Grand Slams with good success, but again with a high degree of lead fragmentation and meat loss. I still have a supply of Speer 165gr GS that worked really well in a 308 Winchester model 88 I used to have. I'd trade them off but a friend I load for 'likes' them in his '06.

 

[Gatehouse]

I have in past used, most noteably, Nosler partitions and Speer Grand Slams with good success, but again with a high degree of lead fragmentation and meat loss. I still have a supply of Speer 165gr GS that worked really well in a 308 Winchester model 88 I used to have. I'd trade them off but a friend I load for 'likes' them in his '06.

I always liked Partitions, they were always my "go to" bullet and they remain fine bullets. I've killed a truckload of animals with the NP's. I have a lower opinion of the Speer GS's. They kill well,but I have found them to be finicky for accuracy with some rifles. Other bullets lke Nosler Ballistic Tips would shoot remarkably well, and produce dramatic kills on deer if shot through the lungs, but also would blow up with a close range,high velocity shot to the shoulder (like I just took on the blacktail)

And of course lots of regular ol' cup and core bullets will kill deer well, but won't work as well on a moose shoulder at high velocity.

The Barnes bullets combine excellent accuracy (I can usually work up a hunting load in about 15 shots or less) and kill like no other bullet I've used.

The bottom line with Barnes TSX and TTSX bullets seems to be- Use a slightly lighter bullet than "normal" and push them fast. That does a few things- flattens trajectory, helps expansion and allows them to penetrate deep. Dee enough that if you can get any reasonable shot towards the vitals, you can take it. In this case, a 150gr TTSX from a .308 opens up shot options on an elk like quartering to or quartering away, a shot that might not be prudent with regular cup and core bullets.

 

[Johnn Peterson]

Hey guys, in line with this discussion dealing primarily with Barnes bullets and their performance, I've had a very helpful individual on this site send me an excel spread sheet for calculating bullet stability. Has anyone else used it and if so, what are your thoughts and/or comments?

 

[Boomer]

I load 180 gr TSX in my wife's .30/06 for her bear load. All TSX bullets have a similar depth of hollow point within caliber regardless of bullet weight, so the maximum expansion is roughly 1.5X regardless of caliber or bullet weight. This being the case I don't see how a lighter bullet can expand better than a heavier bullet if the .308 is being shot within a reasonable range. Once fluid enters the hollow point, the TSX has to open, even if velocity is down to 2000 fps, which would suggest a 350 yard shot with a .308.

The TSX technology has a couple of advantages over lead core bullets, but they do favor light for caliber bullets for the best results, particularly in slow twist barrels. A lead core bullet gains weight by increasing the length of the lead core, this is the part of the bullet that provides expansion, so in most cases the heavier the bullet the greater the amount of upset and the larger the resulting wound volume, but not so with the TSX where the non-expanding shank is lengthened for additional weight. So why do I load 180s in my wife's '06? Because her 1:12 twist barrel won't stabilize 240 gr Woodleighs, and because the 180 gr TSX is the toughest 180 that I know of.

 

[Boomer]

Hey guys, in line with this discussion dealing primarily with Barnes bullets and their performance, I've had a very helpful individual on this site send me an excel spread sheet for calculating bullet stability. Has anyone else used it and if so, what are your thoughts and/or comments?

While I haven't used the spread sheet, I discovered that the old .308" 200 gr X bullet did not stabilize particularly well in my 1:10 twist .30/06, but the old 180 gr X bullets stabilizes in my wife's 1:12, as do the newer TSXs.

The old 100 gr X bullets didn't stabilize particularly well in my 1:10 .243, but the 85 gr TSX do. I loaded some 53 gr TSX in a slow twist (1:14) .22-250 and like the other too long for twist bullets, these shot poorly at 100, and made elongated holes in the paper, so the 45 gr TSX is a better choice for that application.

The 450 gr TSX also seems to do better in Pounder's .458 Winchester than the 500 gr. Again the twist is a bit slow, in his cut off factory Brno barrel.

My 1:12 .375 shoots the longest Barnes bullets without compalint.

A pal who shoots a .25/06 prefers the 100 gr TSX to anything else for moose.

 

[Johnn Peterson]

Thanks Boomer.

The reason I asked is crunching figures, there were a couple of results that suprised me a little. As part of the spread sheet there is a listing or rating system of Stability Factor;

• SF < 1.0 Bullet not stabilized
• SF > 1.0 Bullet is marginally stabilized
• SF > 1.3 Bullet is fully stabilized
• SF > 1.5 Bullet is maximally stabilized

A short while back I purchased a selection of Barnes TTSX in 30 cal and 7mm to start testing. In 7mm I have weights of 120gr, 140gr and 150gr to load for my 7x61 S&H with a 1:10 twist. Again, crunching figures, the 'suprise' came with the 150gr, driven at a veolcity of 2980 f/sec, the SF came out at 0.91, which doesn't look too good.

The 30 cal TTSX & TSX selection I picked up to use in my 30-06 with a 1:12 twist and my 308 Norma Mag with a 1:10 twist are 130gr, 150gr, 165gr and 168gr. For the most part, the SF results for the 30 cal in both calibers don't look too bad.

With the SF number results I got using the 7mm 150gr, I thought I'd ask around a bit for commets and experiences of others in my attempts to come up with loads. Trying to save a bit of powder burning and bullet expense. Thanks for your input, I appreciate it.

 

[todbartell]

excel spread sheet for calculating bullet stability. Has anyone else used it and if so, what are your thoughts and/or comments?

looks like it was stable enough

Hummer - go kill a buck with a TTSX, and post a pic of it when you're done! ASAP!

 

[Johnn Peterson]

looks like it was stable enough

Hummer - go kill a buck with a TTSX, and post a pic of it when you're done! ASAP!

I'd say expansion doesn't get much better than that. What are the details of that shot, caliber/cartridge, velocity, weight, range etc? With the bullets I picked up and again, just crunching figures, I was 'wondering' and a little concerned about the projected stability factor for 150gr 7mm TTSX at the calculated velocity in my 7x61. Have you used that excel spread sheet and if so, how have the figures corresponded to what you've experienced in the field and on the range? Is that spread sheet and its calculations credible?
My computer skills being what they are, I still haven't 'gotten around' to figuring out the posting thing.

 

[Gatehouse]

How valuable is a spreadsheet compared to real world?...Work up a load doing a ladder method and go hunting.

My 300WSM 1:10 twist shoots .5-.75MOA with

130gr TTSX 3500fps
150gr TTSX 3300 fps
168gr TSX 3100 fps
180gr TSX 3000 fps

Out to about 400 yards.

What does the spreadsheet say about the SF for those bullets?

 

[Johnn Peterson]

How valuable is a spreadsheet compared to real world?...Work up a load doing a ladder method and go hunting.

My 300WSM 1:10 twist shoots .5-.75MOA with

130gr TTSX 3500fps
150gr TTSX 3300 fps
168gr TSX 3100 fps
180gr TSX 3000 fps

Out to about 400 yards.

What does the spreadsheet say about the SF for those bullets?

Right from the "get go", that's the kind of info I've been trying to obtain. I've made a decission to go with Barnes TTSX in a number of calibers so in order to save a lot of guess work, time and some expense, I thought I'd inquire from some on site. Rather than trying to re-invent the wheel I thought I'd try and tap into the knowledge and experience of others who have already been down this particular road. One aspect of input and feedback I received was this excel spread sheet on calculation of bullet stability. When I crunched some figures I got some 'questionable' results so I thought I'd inquire further and see what the opinion and or experience of others that may have used it was, pro or con, before continuing. So, a question I had concerning the spread sheet, has anyone else gone by it, and was the info it held credible or not?

Your input on your rifle details and details of bullets you've used and out to the range you've found those loads to be reliable and accurate to, is the kind of info and experience I've been asking for. Good input and info, it's just that it seems to have taken me a while to get it. Also, for the calibers I have that Barnes doesn't list data for, contacting Ty Herring at Barnes was somewhat helpful.

Oh, if you're interested in the excel spread sheet, PM me your e-mail address and I'll mail it to you.

OR, PM me the exact length of the bullets you've listed, I'll run the info for each through the spread sheet and send you the results. I don't know to what degree the spread sheet is credible and it was a question I had for others that may have had experience with it. I thought if it is a reliable piece of info, it may be an indication of poor down range accuracy.

UPDATE:
I have the same 130gr & 150gr TTSX but my 168gr is a TTSX so measurements of length would be different and as of yet, I haven't picked up any 180's so I don't have their measurements.
From your info, 300WSM 1:10 twist @3500 f/sec the SF for the 130's is 3.48. Your 150's @ 3300 f/sec come out at 2.26.