308 case trimming

goggles

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Hi,

I've fired my Hornady 308 brass twice now (over 600) in the same rifle. After passing them through the Lee Collet Die, the case length now varies between 2.009 and 2.013 inches, with a few at 2.015". Should I trim them now to 2.005, or keep on reloading them again as long as they don't exceed 2.015 inches?


My rifle has a custom 28" stainless steel barrel, used for long range TR. Would its accuracy be affected either way?


Thanks,

Goggles
 
I'd trim them just to get it over with and to avoid having the odd one being hard to chamber because the case is too long.

600 rounds? I pray you have a power trimmer. I just did 60 by hand and hated every turn.

Especially Hornady which I have found to be quite soft and likely to expand in my little experience.
 
Thanks for the replies.

As this is my first year of reloading, my first priority is to not have a load blow up in my face due to lack of experience.

Then, there's precision. I was wondering if having cases that vary in length betweem 2.009 and 2.015 would affect my group very much, or would trimming them all to 2.005" make a whole lot of difference wrt consistency. I have to reload at least 300 before mid-August, and although I've set up a drill in a vise to use with a Lee case trimmer, I'm not looking forward to it if I don't really have to.

I've been shooting with iron sights and staying within 2 MOA at 500 yards and within 3 MOA at 900 meters with little wind, for example.

I'm shooting 155gr Sierra Palma Match Kings with 45.5gr of Varget, with bullet seating .020" from the lands.

Thanks,

Goggles
 
If you had a Giraud trimmer, you'd spend more time figuring out you had 600 pieces of brass varying in overall length from 2.009" to 2.015" than it would for you to have trimmed and chamfered them in the first place.:wave:
 
I cannot get my lee trimmer to hold the case nice every time, they seem to slip out as I am trimming them unless I tighten the living crap out of them.

I do not have enough brass to trim to really make it worth while to spend a lot of coin on a power trimmer, but how well do those case trimmers like the Wilson sharkfin or Lyman Accu trimmers work?? I think they are in the $70 range.
 
Quote. "length now varies between 2.009 and 2.013 inches".
I would trim them all to 2.009. Consistency being king. And yes I do have a power trimmer.
 
Cases of different lengths will give you headaches. The OAL will be different. If you're crimping, they won't crimp in the same place either. Trim 'em all to the same length. I'd go to 2.005". Don't forget to chamfer and deburr.
 
Keep on reloading them again as long as they don't exceed 2.015 inches.

Do you know what chamber is in your rifle (i.e. what reamer)? Also, what is your loaded cartridge overall length?

When it comes time to trim (and by the book, as soon as you exceed 2.015" it is time to trim), trim them to 2.005" more or less (i.e. by the book). If your bullet isn't on the verge of falling out of the cartridge mouth (which can happen on the very short Sierra #2155), you can trim a bit more - I usually trim to about 2.000".

In and of itself, I wouldn't worry about your different cases varying in length (though this might be a symptom of some reloading problem you should investigate). With everything else done well, I'm pretty sure that if a 2.000" long piece of brass will fire a bullet into the bull at 1000 yards, that a 2.015" long piece of brass with the same load will also fire into the bull.

When you do trim your brass, make a point of thoroughly chamfering the inside of the case mouth (and optionally, the outside too). A freshly-trimmed case mouth is square and sharp, and will shave quite a bit of copper from a bullet when you seat it. This is messy, and arguably might hurt your long range accuracy.

Since you say that you need to get 300 done by mid-August, does this mean that you are firing the DCRA Canadian Championships? (PM me if you wish)

Your load (S155 .020" jump/45.5 Varget/Hornady brass) is reasonable and sensible. Do you have a chronograph, and have you had a chance to chrono five or ten shots of your ammo? Do you know how much the velocity in a string of shots varies? This doesn't matter for 600 yards and closer, but for 900m it can make the difference between a load that will shoot 1.75 MOA (a good load) versus a load that will shoot 2.5-3.0 MOA (a middling load).
 
Trim 'em all to the same length - consistency is the key to accuracy.

I too, own a power trimmer, and power chamfer deburring tool - now instead of dreading/hating case trimming, I only loathe it only a little bit.

Too bad you live so far away - I'm home with a stupid multiple sclerosis flare up, bored out of my skull. I'd actually LOVE to trim them all for you just to have something to do :p

As said before - if I was setting up to trim 'em - I'd go for 2.005 for ALL of them, get them all the same, shoot them all the same number of times and you should get 3-4 firing out of each before trim day comes to town again.
 
Thanks for the replies. Just back from work. Gone 2.5 days.

The consensus seems to be to trim to 2.005". I'd be tempted to go to 2.009", ostensibly to prolong case life, but the Lee case trimmer isn't securely adjustable.

It'd be nice to have a Giraud case trimmer, but it's a bit expensive, and it's probably going to take some time to get one.

I did chronograph my initial reloads, starting at 44gr, up to 45.5. 45.5 gave me just under 2900 fps. Bullet drop from 300m to 900 m is about 33 MOA. I find that Sierra's stated Ballistic Coefficient of .504 for 155gr Palma Match Kings to be a bit overrated. Hornady's BC for their 155gr A-Max seems more reasonable ar .435.

Daniel, yes, I plan on competing at the DCRA Canadian Fullbore championship. I think we met on the firing line last year. I was a greenshot.
 
Hi goggles, looking forward to seeing you in Ottawa in a couple of weeks. Check out the "CGN beer night" that Maynard suggested (starting at post #8)

The "new Sierra 155 Palma" bullet (#2156) has a stated bc of 0.504, the older Sierra 155 grain #2155 (used to be called "Palma" bullet) has a stated bc of 0.450:

I assume you are using the #2155 Sierra 155 grain HPBT - this is the Palma bullet that was introduced in 1992. This was the original 155 grain target bullet; it was quite a modest design (the story behind it is interesting), and just about every 155 grain bullet that has come out since it has been a lower-drag (higher bc) bullet. It was and still is a fine bullet. Many matches have been won with it, and many matches will continue to be won with it. This year at the Imperial Matches in Bisley, they used ammo loaded with the Sierra 155 for the first time, and saw really great results. In one fell swoop they have solved the ammo problems that have plagued shooters at Bisley for a good long time.

To confuse things, Sierra has recently introduced a new 155 grain target bullet, #2156, which they are calling the "Palma" bullet. It is a new design, and it looks to be extremely promising - it is fully the ballistic equal of the other top-of-the-line 155 target bullets (e.g. Lapua 155 and Berger 155.5), it seems to be easy to load to good accuracy (which has always been an advantage of Sierras over many other low-drag target bullets), and it seems to be well-suited to relatively short-throated chambers. I can't wait to get my hands on some; I expect that it will become my standard match bullet (at this time I used the Lapua 155, and also used the Sierra #2155 as a back-up). Some month or year, we'll be able to get our hands on bullets again (!), and we'll all get to try the #2156s. NCRRA does a periodic "group buy" of Sierra target bullets, which it sells to DCRA members at attractive bulk pricing.

The next time you care to do some load development, you might find it useful to work your load up in 0.5 grain increments. With a 30" target barrel and the typical target rifle setup, you'll likely find that velocities in the upper 2900s or the low 3000s are safe, accurate and consistent (with a good chance that they give more consistent velocities than loads in the high 2800s/low 2900s). FWIW my S155 (#2155) loads run about 3000fps, with SDs of 12-15 (thrown charges of Varget), and my Lapua 155 loads run 2950-ish, with SDs of 8-ish (weighed charges of Varget).

The length you trim to is not at all critical. You just want to avoid having overly long cases "pinch" the bullet, which can cause accuracy and/or safety problems. The "advantage" to trimming them to 2.000" or 2.005", is that it'll be a bit longer before you have to trim them again; trimming tends to be a hassle that most people try to avoid (except the Giraud owners, I hear they enjoy trimming!). Trim to whatever length your Lee trimmer gives you, and be happy with that. Do be sure to do a thorough and conscientious job chamfering and deburring the case mount, this makes your future loading *much* more pleasant. Since you're mostly neck-sizing your brass, you won't need to trim very often. When it comes time to full-length size them, there are ways to correctly FL size brass that results in very, very little case length growth. With good methods, you can get more than ten firings before trimming is necessary.
 
Shoot them once more then trim.
I use the basic lee 308 trimmer and cutter mounted in a drill press. (opposite of mounting the shell holder in the press as per lee's instructions). The shelholder gets put on the case head with the stopper and I trim a very large number very quickly. The drill press never gets shut off.
 
Shoot them once more then trim.
I use the basic lee 308 trimmer and cutter mounted in a drill press. (opposite of mounting the shell holder in the press as per lee's instructions). The shelholder gets put on the case head with the stopper and I trim a very large number very quickly. The drill press never gets shut off.

Do you then chamfer manually, or do you chuck the chamfer tool also to the drill?
 
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