308 fans please chime in!

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I wouldn't uasally do this, as most people know I am a learner not a teacher when it comes to hunting. However, I started hunting with a fellow this year, and we took another fellow today o buy his first deer rifle(not his first riffle). Anyway the caliber issue came up. I shoot a remmy in .308, (have owned a 7mm mag, .30-06,and .30-30 for deer rifles). My buddy(the one buying) asked me my opinion between .308 and .30-06. Myself, I believe they are ballistical twins for the most part, but the other fello starts preaching about how the .30-06 kicks the .308 in everyway possible and all abouth the cartridge length and size being the evedence. After arguing a bit, we go into one of our local shops where we are greeted by a almost 13yo counter clerk. The. Guy I had been arguing with asks the kid "what's better?". Not to my surprise, the answer "oh the 30-06 has more push behind it and there for a superior huntng cartridge." Well needless to say, even after showing ballistic charts, this guy refused to admit that these two are even close and made a big show about how the .308 is not a sufficent cartridge Alberta game(I think different). I know this issue has been beaten to death and I hate to do this but am I just a complete idiot or what? This really just a rant, but I would appreciate hearing someone else who shares my point of view if there are any.
Rant, rant, rant:)
 
.30-06 has more case capacity and pulls away from the .308 when using heavier bullets. Either caliber is effective for hunting.
 
I have used both on deer and did not find a lick of difference between them. I would have no hesitation in using either on any game available in Alberta with the exception of Grizzlies--not that either wouldn't work--just like my .35 whelen better for that sort of thing.

fwiw, 44Bore
 
No question that the .30-06 is ballitically superior......what that actually means to a deer or moose is likely negligible though.
 
Any deer moose elk or other big game will not know the diff.
Yes, the '06 will pull away with the bigger boolits, but when using 150 to 180 grainers, the 308 hangs right in there.
Let the bashers think what they want....we KNOW the 308 is GREAT!
Just ask the musk ox Otokiak shot with his!
 
LeRoy said:
Any deer moose elk or other big game will not know the diff.
Yes, the '06 will pull away with the bigger boolits, but when using 150 to 180 grainers, the 308 hangs right in there.
Let the bashers think what they want....we KNOW the 308 is GREAT!
Just ask the musk ox Otokiak shot with his!
Click to expand...
Thank you. I have no problem admitting in heavier bullets the 06 has more, but when dealing with a deer gun they are comparable, and the 308 is capable!
 
44Bore said:
I have used both on deer and did not find a lick of difference between them. I would have no hesitation in using either on any game available in Alberta with the exception of Grizzlies--not that either wouldn't work--just like my .35 whelen better for that sort of thing.
fwiw, 44Bore
Click to expand...
I have not had an oppertunityb to hunt grizz, but I think I would also choose something else in that scenario. Today's argument was seriously just about deer. I still own a 7 mag, a 45-70 gg, a 30-06, a 30-30 and a few varment rifles. I just shoot the best with my 308, and it allways does it's part if I do mine.
 
The nasty ugly truth of the matter is that for all intensive purposes it doesn't make a damned bit of difference out to 300 yards or so, and I'll include the .300 mags as well and I own and shoot them too so don't even start. The .308 with a good bullet will do anything all the others will and just as effectively, a lot less ruckus and a whole lot better for most shooters because it won't kick the hell out of you to shoot it. Like it or not that adds a whole bunch to the thing about the .308's "inherent accuracy" - the fact that almost anybody can enjoy shooting it. I own a bunch of "bigger" guns but the .308 has earned it's dues quite honestly. I'm still trying to find a way to outshoot my girlfriend's .308 T3 SS/Laminate with off the shelf Hornady Light Mag ammo (around 1700 or so ft/lbs at 400 yards if that's any measure of being "bettered" by ANY 30 caliber for hunting purposes). It's a hard goal and I own some damned fine accurate rifles. So there.
 
Well the 308 will kill anything the 30-06 will and the 30-06 will kill anything a 300 win mag will....

However, they are not ballistic twins and the 30-06 has a slight ballistic advantage...... thats what case capacity is about...
 
Riflemen generally accept the concept that higher velocity can be achieved with an increase in powder volume. The advantage a .30/06 has over a .308 is that it holds a bit more powder. This additional volume might be in the order of 10%. When it is prudent to use powders with the same burning rate in both cartridges, as it is with bullets suitable for deer sized game, the difference in velocity is of a minor nature. The .30/06 has the advantage when it is prudent to use slower powders. The capacity of the .308 does not allow enough slow burning powder to push a heavy for caliber bullet as fast as it can be pushed from a .30/06. The .308 must use faster powders to get reasonable velocity from heavy bullets, and loading a fast powder will show high pressure signs before the velocity that is possible from the .30/06 is realized. This ability to drive heavy for caliber bullets a little bit faster makes the .30/06 a bit more versatile when game larger than deer are sought. Now that Barnes has proven that a light weight TSX can penetrate as well as a heavier one due to its higher impact velocity, with no loss of wound volume, the need for heavier bullets has been brought into question, and with that so has the advantage of the .30/06.
 
Well my Nosler manual shows higher velocity with the .308 and a 150 grain bullet when compared to the .30-06 150 grain. I think it's from increased case pressure, and that does come into play too. In the end, in my mind, there is no difference between the .308 and the .30-06, unless your going to cover your walls with ballistics charts and Craig Boddington photo's. Most guys shoot their animals at that 300 yard mark or under. At that range, the difference is neglegable.

I always look at the .308 as a 150 grain cartridge and the '06 as a 180 grain cartridge. I don't know why, but to me that's where they seem best suited. Now with the 150, your looking 2900-3000 FPS, give or take a few. With the 180-'06, I use the 2700 FPS mark. With those velocities, I ran some numbers in a ballistics program. :)jerkit:)

The energy of the .308 measures 2802 ft pounds. The .30-06 is 2915. So basically 100 pounds difference. Using some generic bullet figures, a .308 diameter flying at 3000 fps and a 200 yard zero drops 6.5 inches at 300 yards. The 180 at 2700 drops 8.3 inches at the same range, which is still point and click. Energy at 300 yards is 1896.4 for the '06 and 1988.4 for the .308 Winchester. Of course that is comparing 150's to 180's, but as I said in my mind those are the bullets I'd be using. And when you think about the premium bullets like the Barnes or Partitions, you could go lighter and still get good on game performance. It all boils down to personal preference, but when someone is undecided there are a few things that might sway that preference. For example if your friend was interested in a Savage or Steven's rifle, chances are he would have to go with extension rings to mount his scope for the '06. Not a big deal, but alot of guys just don't like them. Some people prefer short actions period. I don't know if it increases accuracy or not, but some swear it does. Of course the .308 is extremely popular, but I'm willing to bet here are more choices for loads with the .30-06. Anyways, he will have to make up his own mind, just don't let other people decide for him what it is he needs to figure out on his own.
 
Without using fancy ammo and handloads, the difference is marginal. My opinion is that the velocity and energy is very close between the 30-06 and the .308. The difference is that the 30-06 will give you more range than the 308....and probably not that much to make a major difference unless you are a long range shooter. As a hunter, we don't really want to be shooting big game at 500+ yards, unless we must ;)

PRICE : I think that you will find the price between the 2 is very similar and you can find it almost anywhere. Trying to buy .375 H&H in some small northern town may be tricky. 30-06 has a great variety to choose from, moreso than the .308. But again, price is similar, and every Tom, #### & Harry carries it.

Action, well the .308 has a shorter casing so you'd have a smaller bolt throw. Really doesn't matter....we're going to hit the animal with the first shot anyway...and if we wanted to shoot faster, we'd buy a semi.

IF we wanted superior ballistics that are comperable to these two beasts, buy anything that say "Remington Ultra Mag" at the end of it. With this, ammo ain't gonna be cheap I'd imagine, and finding it at your local Canadian Tire may be a challenge.

I've included ballistics from the Remington site. 30-06 with 180gr Remmy Express, .308 with 180gr Remmy Express, and 7mil mag 175gr.

That's my 2 cents

Ballistics Results

Cartridge Information
Index Number Cartridge Type Weight (grs.) Bullet Style Primer No. Ballistic Coefficient
R30066 Remington® Express® 180 Bronze Point™ 9 1/2 0.412
R308W3 Remington® Express® 180 Pointed Soft Point Core-Lokt® 9 1/2 0.383
R7MM3 Remington® Express® 175 Pointed Soft Point Core-Lokt® 9 1/2 M 0.427


Velocity (ft/sec)
Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
Remington® Express® 180 BP 2700 2485 2280 2084 1899 1725
Remington® Express® 180 PSP CL 2620 2393 2178 1974 1782 1604
Remington® Express® 175 PSP CL 2860 2645 2440 2244 2057 1879


Energy (ft-lbs)
Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
Remington® Express® 180 BP 2913 2468 2077 1736 1441 1189
Remington® Express® 180 PSP CL 2743 2288 1896 1557 1269 1028
Remington® Express® 175 PSP CL 3178 2718 2313 1956 1644 1372


Short-Range Trajectory
Cartridge Type Bullet 50 100 150 200 250 300
Remington® Express® 180 BP 0.0 zero -1.3 -4.2 -8.7 -15.0
Remington® Express® 180 PSP CL 0.0 zero -1.5 -4.6 -9.5 -16.5
Remington® Express® 175 PSP CL 0.2 0.7 zero -2.1 -5.6 -10.7


Long-Range Trajectory
Cartridge Type Bullet 100 150 200 250 300 400 500
Remington® Express® 180 BP 2.1 1.8 zero -3.5 -8.8 -25.5 -52.0
Remington® Express® 180 PSP CL 2.3 2.0 zero -3.8 -9.7 -28.3 -57.8
Remington® Express® 175 PSP CL 1.7 1.5 zero -3.0 -7.6 -22.1 -44.8
 
Definatly he decided fo him ownself(went with a savage 06)and as I said I have no problems myself with my own cz 30-06. My only rant was the fact that some pepole who clearly do not know what they are talking about make such bold statements, and then refuse to drop it. I am far from an expert also, but will admit when I'm wrong.Oh well, what can you do?lol
 
you have to be careful as well to utilize the short action of the 308 as well if you want to do any "saving" weight wise over the "06- ie i have a remmy that's 308,(742) but all they've done is stick a 308 barrel( and it's 1/10 twist) on a 06 action- they even used the same barrel, just chambered differently( hence the 1/10 twist, which is standard for the 06) and stuck a spacer in the mag- in other words, it's a FACTORY HACK JOB- no short action utilized, as opposed to my m14s, and the savage 99 which you can SEE is a half inch shorter- as for the cartridges, in a bolt, i'd go for the 06 or possibly in a semi, but i've been running a 308/180 on the east slopes of the rockies for roughly 30 years on the back of an horse- all that time, the gun is a savage 99 308/180 in a scabbard- i don't have to spell it out
as for my load, it's bascially the m118 slr with 180 grain pills instead of 175 smks-it's only 200 or less fps behind the 06. and i can sneak the extra 25 yards or so for the differenceds in mpbrs( maximum point blank range- defined as 6 inches below or above point of impact- basically a "kill zone" )- 267 for the 308, and about 275 for tyhe 06
 
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There is a slight recoil advantage for the .308
Ballisitc differences are pretty marginal between this calibre although some people tell me that for moose .308 is not a good choice compared to .30-06 (just their opinion I guess).
I chose the .308 since I can also fire the cheaper surplus 7.62mm ammo I have.
 
RevolverRodger said:
There is a slight recoil advantage for the .308
Ballisitc differences are pretty marginal between this calibre although some people tell me that for moose .308 is not a good choice compared to .30-06 (just their opinion I guess).
I chose the .308 since I can also fire the cheaper surplus 7.62mm ammo I have.
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how about they didn't do their due research and find out WHERE THE VITALS ARE- or DIDN'T SPEND ENOUGH RANGE TIME WITH THE GUN DOING SIGHT IN- ANY SLUG OVER 160 TRAVELLING AT ANY RATE will fall mr moosey- provided you're within range and PLACE YOUR SHOT PROPERLY- ck out the hunting stories here and you see there's far lesser as well as far greater rounds used on moose- that 308/180 load takesme right up to grizzly, and for that prudence dicatates a 338 with a 250-275 grainer, mainly b/c idon't want to be as close as i'd have to be with the 308
 
I have rifles chambered for both cartridges and have hunted with both of them. My feeling is that in terms of hunting performance, you can't really tell them apart. And due to advancements in both powders and bullets, both of these cartridges are better performers on game than they were say, thirty years ago.
 
Practically everything that should be mentioned has already been said here. I will just add a small point. The 308 and the 30-06 in factory loadings are so similar that the difference could be ignored in bullet weights from 130 - 180 grains. However, if one is reloading, the 30-06 shows a bit more velocity, thus energy. Again, not a very significant amount, but on the order of 100 fps with the 150 and 150 fps with the 180. No game animal will be able to tell the difference, and 99.9% of all shooters will not see any difference either. What it all boils down to is personal preference, and we all know where that leads. People tend to get very opinionated, even at a relatively tender age, and no amount of common sense will change them. I often hunt with a bolt action 300 Savage, which will give right around 2775 with the 150 partition. With it I have shot Deer, Black Bear & Moose, all with one shot, at ranges from 35 yards out to 325 yards. Would I have been any better off packing a 30-06? I cannot see how that is possible. Dead is dead. While I own and like the 30-06 a lot, I don't give it any magical virtues in a misguided attempt to make it highly superior to a slightly shorter, ballistically similar offering. Regards, Eagleye.
 
They both suck he shoulda got a .270:D:D:D:D:D

I have used and hunted with both the .308 and 30/06 and as others have stated I myself have never noticed a bit of difference between them on game. I got into the same type of "discussion" at the range with a fella a couple of years ago about the "superiority" of the Remington 7mm Magnum over the 30/06. Lets just say he loved his 7mm and was pretty sure it was the greatest of them all. Its all personal preference IMO...
 
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