.308 hmmm,
- Thread starter sealhunter
- Start date
A 150 or 165 grain Nosler AccuBond (or 168 grain Ballistic Tip) fired from a 308 Win will still be trucking good and north of 2000 FPS at 400 yards (about 2050 or so). I'd shoot a broadside moose with any of the above at that velocity.
Good guess on a moose 400 yards would be my max with the 300RUM with either 180gr Scirroco's or 200gr A-Frames, both would still have more than 1 1/2 tons of energy and retained velocities over 2500fps and would only drop with a 230 yard zero 12.5" (180gr) & 15" (200gr) @ 400 yards also this is my max that I feel comfortable shooting a moose with this rifle/cartridge combo.
I would shoot out to 500 yards using my 375 RUM with 300gr Sierra Gamekings @ 2760fps average velocity these bullets/loads sighted in @ 200 yards are only down 22" @ 400 and 46" @ 500 yards and with my Boone & Crockett reticle the second BC cross hair down is dead on @ 460 yards and still has over 1 1/2 tons of retained energy and doing over 1900fps @ 500 yards.
Basically I respect the animal to much to take pot shots beyond 200 yards with an aenemic cartridge like the 308 get a real rifle/cartridge combo that is designed to get the job done at the greater distances or keep your shots closer and even with the power of the RUM cartridges I would only take the longer shots if weather conditions were perfect.
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With the right bullet for sure. When we start stretching ranges beyond 300 yards, the BC of the bullet becomes one of the most important considerations there is. Choose a bullet for long range shooting and no reason not to use an aenemic cartridge like the 308. Pretty easy to gain over 40" of elevation and over 700 pounds of energy at 500 by just switching bullets.
Hornady .308 Winchester 150 grain Round Nose bullet
Range
Velocity
Energy
Momentum
Drop
Windage
(yards)
(ft/sec)
(ft-lbs)
(lbs-sec)
(inches)
(inches)
0
2817.0
2643.0
1.88
-1.5
-0.0
100
2342.7
1827.8
1.56
-0.0
1.9
200
1919.4
1226.9
1.28
-4.9
8.1
300
1552.5
802.7
1.03
-19.4
20.1
400
1263.5
531.7
0.84
-48.5
39.5
500
1079.3
388.0
0.72
-99.2
66.5
Hornady .308 Winchester 150 grain SST pointed boat tail bullet
Range
Velocity
Energy
Momentum
Drop
Windage
(yards)
(ft/sec)
(ft-lbs)
(lbs-sec)
(inches)
(inches)
0
2807.6
2625.4
1.87
-1.5
-0.0
100
2588.5
2231.5
1.72
-0.0
0.8
200
2380.8
1887.7
1.59
-3.7
3.3
300
2183.5
1587.8
1.45
-13.6
7.7
400
1995.3
1326.0
1.33
-30.7
14.3
500
1818.2
1101.0
1.21
-56.6
23.3
Camp Cook, can you agree with the fact that the 30-30 Winchester has killed more moose in North America than the 300 Weatherby/300 Ultra/30-378 Wby combined?
TB I bet you they weren't shooting them moose at 400 yards with those 30-30's I would even use a 30-30 if that was all I had but I would keep my shots within 100 yards, then again I would not be using/carrying a 30-30 when I am moose hunting.
I'm not saying that the 308 or 30-30 won't do the job at reasonable distances it is that there are so many other cartridges available that can do the job better at the greater distances so why would I carry a minimal rifle/cartridge combo when there are better choices available.
SH if you use the same bullets in a 300WM/RUM the retained velocities/energies/tragectories put them into a class that the 308 when hunting a moose can't come close to, sure go for smaller animals like deer but get closer with the little rounds...
Also not saying it can't be done I'm saying I have to much respect for the animal to use a minimal round at distances further than 200 yards when I do not have too limit myself.
I'm not saying that the 308 or 30-30 won't do the job at reasonable distances it is that there are so many other cartridges available that can do the job better at the greater distances so why would I carry a minimal rifle/cartridge combo when there are better choices available.
SH if you use the same bullets in a 300WM/RUM the retained velocities/energies/tragectories put them into a class that the 308 when hunting a moose can't come close to, sure go for smaller animals like deer but get closer with the little rounds...
Also not saying it can't be done I'm saying I have to much respect for the animal to use a minimal round at distances further than 200 yards when I do not have too limit myself.
Never said it was in the class of a .300 but that doesn't mean it's not a suitable cartridge for moose to 400 yards. The two are not mutually exclusive. FYI, there is nothing "littler" about a 308 vs 300......they both use the same bullet and make the same sized hole....... A.30 cal hole through the lungs let's in a sufficient amount of light regardless of what it was shot from.
Holy crap!!
A .308 is now a "minimal" cartridge?
Will a .308 bullet expand and penetrate through both lungs of a moose at 400 yards? It sure will. Just put it in the right place and use the correct bullet, as stated.
Truth is, most hunters have no business shooting at a moose at 400 yards or even past 200 yards, using any cartridge. It's the shooter that is the weakest link.
A .308 is now a "minimal" cartridge?
Will a .308 bullet expand and penetrate through both lungs of a moose at 400 yards? It sure will. Just put it in the right place and use the correct bullet, as stated.
Truth is, most hunters have no business shooting at a moose at 400 yards or even past 200 yards, using any cartridge. It's the shooter that is the weakest link.
There is certainly nothing minimal about 1400 or 1500 fpe of energy at 400 yards. I know it is a hard pill to swallow that cartridge with out the word "ultra" or "magnum" in the name and old technology to boot can be so boringly efficient in the hands of a competent shooter, but it is true. It has absolutely nothing to do with respect as those energy figures tell the story but a whole lot more to do with competency. If you are not confidant about your choice in cartridges at a certain range than certainly not shooting is the right thing to do. You don't however have the right to make that choice for someone else or question their choice.
so..you're basically saying it takes a premium 180 impacting @ 2500 fps or more, to effectively kill a moose
have you ever killed a moose with a lesser cartridge? what have you shot moose with? I've shot them with 7mm Mag, 30-06, and 416 Rem Mag, and seen them shot with 25-06 and 300 Mags too.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
I've got a few breeds of 30 cal...308, 30-06 and 300 WM. I'm sure that the 308 would be just dandy at 300, but I'd keep it to 200 and less. If I was looking for a moose I'd likely take my 30-06 if I was sledding or 300 if I was out in open country and wanted to flog one at a great distance.
When I am hunting moose I now carry a 300RUM/375RUM/45-70 I do not carry little rifle/cartridge combo's anymore I own them and shoot them when hunting smaller game but not in moose country that is why I have more than 1 or 2 rifles.
TB I'm almost twice as old as you and been hunting from when I was 8 or 9 years old do you think for a second that I have not seen more moose shot than you and with far more cartridges?
Myself I have shot them with 270 Weatherby, 30-06, 300WM, 308 Norma Mag and the last one was with my 375RUM I have never carried a smaller or less powerful round than these when hunting moose.
I have seen many more moose shot with many more cartridges including 257 Weatherby, 308 Win, 7mm mag did these rounds work yes they did will I use them no I will not I have no interest in these cartridges.
If I did I would once again respect the animal and only shoot if the distances were shorter.
TB I'm almost twice as old as you and been hunting from when I was 8 or 9 years old do you think for a second that I have not seen more moose shot than you and with far more cartridges?
Myself I have shot them with 270 Weatherby, 30-06, 300WM, 308 Norma Mag and the last one was with my 375RUM I have never carried a smaller or less powerful round than these when hunting moose.
I have seen many more moose shot with many more cartridges including 257 Weatherby, 308 Win, 7mm mag did these rounds work yes they did will I use them no I will not I have no interest in these cartridges.
If I did I would once again respect the animal and only shoot if the distances were shorter.
Camp, I don't think anyone is questioning your choice of cartridge as obviously it's a fine choice. It's just the condescending/aqusatory comment that you end every post with that is ruffling a few feathers.
To somehow imply that shooting a moose over 200 yards with a .308 is disrespectful is, well, disrespectful. No real need to keep justfying your choice....just as there's no real reason to disrespect those that can ethically kill a moose with their respective cartridge. BTW, you're missing out on a real good eland discussion.......you'd definitely find some friends there!
To somehow imply that shooting a moose over 200 yards with a .308 is disrespectful is, well, disrespectful. No real need to keep justfying your choice....just as there's no real reason to disrespect those that can ethically kill a moose with their respective cartridge. BTW, you're missing out on a real good eland discussion.......you'd definitely find some friends there!
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I think todbartell is right about the broadside 400 yard thing.
While it still has comparable velocity and energy to a point blank 30/30 it should be mentioned that the point blank 30/30 will perform better because 30/30 bullets are designed to work at 30/30 speeds.
Not so for the 400 yard 308 bullet example.
The 300Winchester is a better .308 answer to the 400+ yard question.
Or if you don't like recoil the 7 mag loaded with a 160 Accubond works pretty well way out there...
Or, if you are packing a 308Win....Get closer!
While it still has comparable velocity and energy to a point blank 30/30 it should be mentioned that the point blank 30/30 will perform better because 30/30 bullets are designed to work at 30/30 speeds.
Not so for the 400 yard 308 bullet example.
The 300Winchester is a better .308 answer to the 400+ yard question.
Or if you don't like recoil the 7 mag loaded with a 160 Accubond works pretty well way out there...
Or, if you are packing a 308Win....Get closer!
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
With the right bullet, I feel the 308 is capable to 400 yards, however, Personally, I'll hold it to 300.
I know it works well at that range, I've seen it done a few times. The 308 is the most popular cartridge in our moose camp.
I've taken moose with the 30-30, 85 yards, bang flop.
I wouldn't stretch the range out too far, but the penetration at that 85 yard range was far more than I expected, at about 18". The old girl does quite well.
I know it works well at that range, I've seen it done a few times. The 308 is the most popular cartridge in our moose camp.
I've taken moose with the 30-30, 85 yards, bang flop.
I wouldn't stretch the range out too far, but the penetration at that 85 yard range was far more than I expected, at about 18". The old girl does quite well.
I put in 400 with the right bullet and a broadside shot.
The most important thing is bullet placement, at 400 yards it's harder to get all your angles just right and you should really know the trajectory of your load. That being said I would use a 300 win mag over the 308 all day because it makes the math far easier than with a 308. After 300 yards velocity is your friend.
The most important thing is bullet placement, at 400 yards it's harder to get all your angles just right and you should really know the trajectory of your load. That being said I would use a 300 win mag over the 308 all day because it makes the math far easier than with a 308. After 300 yards velocity is your friend.
- Location
- Back in the Peace Country
Well here is my experience. I grew up in rural Newfoundland. While today there are many many more calibres being shot, back when I was a kid and teenager, .303 30/30 and 30/06 was king of the woods.
I have taken and seen numerous moose/elk/caribou/black bear/deer shot with a 30/30 and die on the spot. A few were at 180 yrds or so. Some have stumbled and fell within say 20 yrds or so. Of course the shots were placed right. I have seen more moose and caribou dropped with a .303 brit than any other calbre. Often out to 250 yrds or so. I haven't seen but a couple taken with the 30/06, and I don't know the reasons (bullet choice?) but the 30/06 was least successful.
I have seen Buffalo shot with a Ruger Ranch Rifle in .223, a 30/06 a 300 win mag, a 45/70 and a 30/30... all were one shot drop shots.
Bullet construction and hitting the target are key.
I have taken and seen numerous moose/elk/caribou/black bear/deer shot with a 30/30 and die on the spot. A few were at 180 yrds or so. Some have stumbled and fell within say 20 yrds or so. Of course the shots were placed right. I have seen more moose and caribou dropped with a .303 brit than any other calbre. Often out to 250 yrds or so. I haven't seen but a couple taken with the 30/06, and I don't know the reasons (bullet choice?) but the 30/06 was least successful.
I have seen Buffalo shot with a Ruger Ranch Rifle in .223, a 30/06 a 300 win mag, a 45/70 and a 30/30... all were one shot drop shots.
Bullet construction and hitting the target are key.
