.308 hmmm,

[sheephunter]

Seriously if you think that the 400 yrd offhand, kentucky windage shot with a .308 is unethical why take it?

Haven't heard anyone say you should. The 400 yard shot off of a bipod with an accurate rifle and suitable optics...why not? As you said, getting close is easy so why not be a real hunter and add some challenge by shooting at longer range....... (That was sarcasm btw)

 

[LongDraw]

Ah, the snobbery of the custom rifle/reloader crowd. .

Please, no need for name calling I just asked a question.

I don't handload and shoot custom rigs to wave it under the nose of those who don't. I do it because I like to tinker and because I like to shoot accurately. I am just stating that if you shoot long range and you do not reload you are leaving a TON of accuracy potential on the table.

Be honest with me, lying prone in the grass, shooting off a bipod, how tight of a group can you shoot? Can you get that extra you gained out of your trued action and handloaded ammo?

With the same shooter, same conditions, if your factory gun shoots .75 MOA @ 100, and my custom shoots .4 MOA @ 100 then the custom will be more accurate. Like I said, not a big deal in the difference out to 400 yards or so, but past that that .35 MOA difference starts to compound. Afterall we are talking long range, the whole idea is to eliminate variables that affect accuracy.

I have not seen a factory gun shooting factory ammo that holds .75 MOA out to 600 yards or beyond. Not saying it isn't possible, But it would be a rare combination.

 

[sheephunter]

Please, no need for name calling I just asked a question.

I don't handload and shoot custom rigs to wave it under the nose of those who don't. I do it because I like to tinker and because I like to shoot accurately. I am just stating that if you shoot long range and you do not reload you are leaving a TON of accuracy potential on the table.

Vanessa's new Tikka shoots .6 with factory ammo....how much accuracy potential am I losing shooting off that bipod in the grass by not reloading? I doubt it's a TON.....pretty sure I can't shoot that same .6 in the grass anyhow and I'm not a bad shot.

 

[catnthehatt]

Hey fellows why don"t you all stop arguing about how far you can shoot a moose with a .308 and become a real hunter, get a little closer. That would be my answer,heck a moose dosen't see all that well. If you got close enough you could poke one in the eye with a stick and kill him. Just stay down wind Seriously if you think that the 400 yrd offhand, kentucky windage shot with a .308 is unethical why take it? Get 100 yrds closer and make sure or bring a bigger gun.
Cdn1

Who said ANYTHING about shooting at an animal at 400 OFFHAND??!!
I shoot HP silhouette targets, and would NEVER try that on an animal.
FYI I past on a RESTED 300 yard shot on a very large white tail this year because I was shooting my O/U 6.5 and the front sight coverd the whole body of the animal.
Don't start adding stuff into the equation....
Cat

 

[Omega]

Beyond 400 yards its just about all about the bullet, and if you don't load or can't find loaded VLDs or ULDs you are certainly leaving some potential on the bench. There is a lot of minutia that makes up an exceptional long range gun. Sometimes a great factory gun can be helped by a good smiths attentions, others today are getting pretty surprising. I can see the days where buying a donor action and building up from there could soon be a thing of the past.

 

[cdn1canhunt]

Haven't heard anyone say you should. The 400 yard shot off of a bipod with an accurate rifle and suitable optics...why not? As you said, getting close is easy so why not be a real hunter and add some challenge by shooting at longer range....... (That was sarcasm btw)

holly crap man why don"t we all start hunting from airplanes and carpet bomb the swamp.(that is sarcasm btw) Why is it that some of us want to use 3 thousand dollar tack drivers to kill an animal 3/4's of a mile away? Isnt the challenge the ability to track, anticipate, use the wind and our woodsmanship to get close enough to our quarry to make a clean ethical shot with a rifle that has enough sheer guts to cleanly take the animal?
CDN1

 

[sheephunter]

Afterall we are talking long range, the whole idea is to eliminate variables that affect accuracy.

I have not seen a factory gun shooting factory ammo that holds .75 MOA out to 600 yards or beyond. Not saying it isn't possible, But it would be a rare combination.

Unfortunately the human factor negates your attempt at simple math. I have three factory/unaltered rifles that I'm more than comfortable shooting to 600 metres with factory ammo and one that I can hit a 10" target five times out of five at 800 metres. I haven't tried the others at that range. Apparently long-range factory rifles shooting factory ammo aren't that rare.

 

[catnthehatt]

Why is it that some of us want to use 3 thousand dollar tack drivers to kill an animal 3/4's of a mile away? Isnt the challenge the ability to track, anticipate, use the wind and our woodsmanship to get close enough to our quarry to make a clean ethical shot with a rifle that has enough sheer guts to cleanly take the animal?
CDN1

because we can.
I also hunt with a long bow, Hawken style muzzle loader, and origianl Sniders anmd martinis, all of which are close range affairs.
Just because we are talking about long range shots does not mean that we cannot stalk and kill at close range.
Ther last white tail I arrowed was at 12 feet, and no, I don't use tree stands.
Cat

 

[sheephunter]

holly crap man why don"t we all start hunting from airplanes and carpet bomb the swamp.(that is sarcasm btw) Why is it that some of us want to use 3 thousand dollar tack drivers to kill an animal 3/4's of a mile away? Isnt the challenge the ability to track, anticipate, use the wind and our woodsmanship to get close enough to our quarry to make a clean ethical shot with a rifle that has enough sheer guts to cleanly take the animal?
CDN1

The challenge is what you make out of it. Some days when I head afield I want the challenge to be getting up close and personal and other days I want the challenge to be placing the perfect long-range shot that I've put countless hours into working up for. I hunt for a wide variety of reasons and take pleasure from all of them. It really depends on the day whether I grab my bow, muzzleloader, or rifle. BTW, the most I've ever paid for a rifle is $1,299 and my tack driver cost me $550. You seem to be under the misconception that making a 600 yard shot is not challenging. Truthfully, It's likely more challenging than sneaking within 200 yards of a moose and shooting it with a high power rifle but I enjoy that too some days.

 

[cdn1canhunt]

Who said ANYTHING about shooting at an animal at 400 OFFHAND??!!
I shoot HP silhouette targets, and would NEVER try that on an animal.
FYI I past on a RESTED 300 yard shot on a very large white tail this year because I was shooting my O/U 6.5 and the front sight coverd the whole body of the animal.
Don't start adding stuff into the equation....
Cat

Cat I'm just saying...., we shouldn't have to take 400yrd shot at a moose with a 308 moose aren't all that cagey, a hunter with any muster should be able to get closer or if they can't muster carry a bigger stick.
good call on the whitetail though.
CDN1

 

[LongDraw]

Unfortunately the human factor negates your attempt at simple math. I have three factory/unaltered rifles that I'm more than comfortable shooting to 600 metres with factory ammo and one that I can hit a 10" target five times out of five at 800 metres. I haven't tried the others at that range. Apparently long-range factory rifles shooting factory ammo aren't that rare.

Yes factory gun/ammo combos like yours are rare.

Also sounds like you know how to shoot so the human factor is negated somewhat. Again with my attempt at simple math then you should be able to hit a 5" target at 800 meteres with my gun and handloads, so again the custom gun with handloads would be more accurate

Curious once you find factory ammo that shoots for you like you describe above do you go back to the store and stock up with the same lot# ?

 

[sheephunter]

we shouldn't have to take 400yrd shot at a moose with a 308 moose aren't all that cagey

I don't have to....I want to......

 

[sheephunter]

Curious once you find factory ammo that shoots for you like you describe above do you go back to the store and stock up with the same lot# ?

Nope, with the premium ammo offered now a days there's no real reason to. Certainly in the old days there was a lot of inconsistency between lots but with the quality control and tolerances in the premium ammo today, I've never really noticed any difference, at least over the chrono.

Yes factory gun/ammo combos like yours are rare.

Ya, only 100% of the rifles I've bought recently would fall into that category.

 

[cdn1canhunt]

The challenge is what you make out of it. Some days when I head afield I want the challenge to be getting up close and personal and other days I want the challenge to be placing the perfect long-range shot that I've put countless hours into working up for. I hunt for a wide variety of reasons and take pleasure from all of them. It really depends on the day whether I grab my bow, muzzleloader, or rifle. BTW, the most I've ever paid for a rifle is $1,299 and my tack driver cost me $550. You seem to be under the misconception that making a 600 yard shot is not challenging. Truthfully, It's likely more challenging than sneaking within 200 yards of a moose and shooting it with a high power rifle but I enjoy that too some days.

SH I agree the challenge is what you make of it, but if you want to shoot the 400yrd shot and you have the ability. Choose a caliber that has been proven with out a dought to have the ability do it. I'm not saying the .308 can't do it but if a larger caliber leaves no question why not use it?CDN1

 

[LongDraw]

Sheephunter its pretty simple;

You are limiting yourself with factory ammo and longrange shooting, this is a fact. What do you do if the bullet you want to shoot, if offered in factory fare does not shoot for you? You cannot try a different powder, charge weight, seating depth, neck tension or primer as I can.

When I buy a bag of brass and prep them I have seen brass cover as much as50% of the flash hole. With the exception of Lapua and Norma flash holes, win and fed are punched, leaving a ragged flash hole, sometimes partially covering it. The machine that loads factory ammo does not do any brass prep. Ever get any fliers with factory ammo? Wonder why? Might not be that much of a flier @ 100 yards, but at 600 yards it will be a different story.

 

[X-fan]

Hey fellows why don"t you all stop arguing about how far you can shoot a moose with a .308 and become a real hunter, get a little closer. That would be my answer,heck a moose dosen't see all that well. If you got close enough you could poke one in the eye with a stick and kill him. Just stay down wind Seriously if you think that the 400 yrd offhand, kentucky windage shot with a .308 is unethical why take it? Get 100 yrds closer and make sure or bring a bigger gun.
Cdn1

cdn1canhunt,
I am a traditional bow hunter and kill game.....You use a rifle and cheat?
Why don't you become a real hunter and pick up a bow????

I also purposely set up and shoot game at long range. Why?
Quite simply it is one more challenging segment of the hunting experience and it opens up lots of opportunities. The fact that some guys that shoot game at long range really shouldn't be, doesn't make it any less hunting.

PLEASE!
Don't pass judgment on something you don't remotely understand.

You should actually try some of this stuff before we loose the opportunity forever.

 

[X-fan]

SH I agree the challenge is what you make of it, but if you want to shoot the 400yrd shot and you have the ability. Choose a caliber that has been proven with out a dought to have the ability do it. I'm not saying the .308 can't do it but if a larger caliber leaves no question why not use it?CDN1

Well said.

 

[sheephunter]

SH I agree the challenge is what you make of it, but if you want to shoot the 400yrd shot and you have the ability. Choose a caliber that has been proven with out a dought to have the ability do it. I'm not saying the .308 can't do it but if a larger caliber leaves no question why not use it?CDN1

In my mind, the .308 doesn't leave any doubt.

 

[sheephunter]

Sheephunter its pretty simple;

You are limiting yourself with factory ammo and longrange shooting, this is a fact. What do you do if the bullet you want to shoot, if offered in factory fare does not shoot for you? You cannot try a different powder, charge weight, seating depth or primer as I can.

When I buy a bag of brass and prep them I have seen brass cover as much as50% of the flash hole. With the exception of Lapua and Norma flash holes, win and fed are punched, leaving a ragged flash hole, sometimes partially covering it. The machine that loads factory ammo does not do any brass prep. Ever get any fliers with factory ammo? Wonder why? Might not be that much of a flier @ 100 yards, but at 600 yards it will be a different story.

Well, if I'm limiting myself to 600 yard shots, I can live with that. Truthfully, part of the excitement of long-range shooting for me is doing it with off the shelf rifles and factory ammo. I have zero interest in custom rifles and handloading. I respect those that do just as I would hope they'd respect me. I limit myself when I shoot my bow and my muzzleloader too and I'm fine confining my shots to those self-imposed limits just as I'm fine with the fact that factory guns and ammo limit me to 600 metres...well maybe 800 with the one rifle. I really happy for you that your rifle shoots so well and that you enjoy tinkering but I really have no interest so not sure why you are trying to convince me I need to. I'm not arguing that all your tinkering makes a difference off a bench on paper but you'll never convince me that in a hunting situation that it's going to extend my range over my factory set up. It's quite possible you are twice as good of a shooter as me and that the .35MOA would make a difference to you but I can tell you right now that it wouldn't to me.

And no, I've never had a flyer with premium ammo, at least on paper so no, I've never had to wonder.

 

[cdn1canhunt]

cdn1canhunt,I am a traditional bow hunter and kill game.....You use a rifle and cheat?Why don't you become a real hunter and pick up a bow????I also purposely set up and shoot game at long range. Why?Quite simply it is one more challenging segment of the hunting experience and it opens up lots of opportunities. The fact that some guys that shoot game at long range really shouldn't be, doesn't make it any less hunting.PLEASE!Don't pass judgment on something you don't remotely understand.You should actually try some of this stuff before we loose the opportunity forever.

Wait 1 second X-fan who said I don't bow hunt? I do and have for about 10years. But I also hunt with a rifle, have for about 22 years. I was just saying why not stay within the "For sure range" for a .308 or move* to something "for sure"* to shoot the moose at 400yrds. and PLEASE dont pass judgment on me and I won't on you.fYI I've tried all stuff hunting and enjoy every minute of it I hope I never loose any of it.* CDN1