308 Lee-Enfield converted for hunting

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sorifern

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Hey Guys

I recently was at the gun show in Calgary this past weekend where I picked up a 308 Lee Enfield that has been converted for 400 bucks. It has been put in a newish synthetic stock as well, which at first I was not to keen on, but I think it would be better for hunting. Anyways, I have been reading some reviews from other people online who have these types of rifles (or they just know things about them), and some people said there is a chance the barrel could explode because of the power of the 308 compared to the 303. This concerns me, and I may take it to a gun smith to have him/her inspect it. Anyone else hear of these kind of issues? Barrel has stamps from 1917, and its not one of the Indian converted ones I should note. Cool rifle though! I am really hoping it is a good one! Even came with a mag, which are expensive on their own. There was a guy at the show trying to sell a 308 mag for the Lee-Enfield for 250!!! Highway robbery.

:)
 
Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

The meager description of the rifle indicates it started life as a No1 MKIII SMLE.

It likely won't blow up on you but the action may stretch or already be stretched if someone was shooting off the shelf loads. If it has the .311 bore, as mentioned accuracy will be lousy.

If that action has already been stretched, you need to be very careful you don't wear a face full of hot gasses and bits of brass if you get a case head separation.

Have the headspace checked by someone that knows what they are doing.

If all is well, handload with .311 bullets to 303 Brit specs. Case capacities are about the same so pressures should be equivalent.

Now, if you actually have a No4 MkI or II that might be an OK rifle. Just remember, it may have been altered to shoot 7.62 Nato. Dimensionally the same as the 308Win but loaded to lower pressures.
 
the action on the no 1 is actually stronger and beefier than the no 4, and considering the DCRA converted no4s to 7.62, and the loose bore isnt going to be holding the pressure as high, it should be fine, check the the bolt head wont over rotate and that the lugs are still good
 
bearhunter said:
Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
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This is a ridiculous statement. Pressures and ballistics are very similar between a 308 and a 303. As far as accuracy goes, I have a Longbranch No 4 in 308 with a .312 barrel that shoots just fine. A 303 barrel has grooves at .312 or thereabouts but the lands are still .303, there's enough there to spin a .30 cal bullet.
 
scott585 said:
the action on the no 1 is actually stronger and beefier than the no 4, and considering the DCRA converted no4s to 7.62, and the loose bore isnt going to be holding the pressure as high, it should be fine, check the the bolt head wont over rotate and that the lugs are still good
Click to expand...

What makes you think that is true? When the Indians made the No.1 in .308 they didn't convert existing rifles because they thought they wouldn't safely handle the pressure. They made their .308 rifles with a different specification steel. The British converted No.4s rather than No.1s. They thought the No.4 was a stronger action and they still tested them individually before proceeding.
 
bdft said:
This is a ridiculous statement. Pressures and ballistics are very similar between a 308 and a 303. As far as accuracy goes, I have a Longbranch No 4 in 308 with a .312 barrel that shoots just fine. A 303 barrel has grooves at .312 or thereabouts but the lands are still .303, there's enough there to spin a .30 cal bullet.
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Go back and read my post. I have no qualms with 7.62 Nato in a No4 action. In fact I likely have more of them so chambered than you do.

The 308 Win ammo available commercially is about 10 to 15% hotter as far as pressure goes.

When India decided to build their 2 and 2A rifles they purposely went to a tougher, more appropriate steel for their receivers. They did this because the original No1 actions had a tendency to STRETCH and become unsafe as far as escaping bits of brass and gasses go.

I wasn't suggesting a KABOOM. I was suggesting the action of the No1 action will likely stretch. Many nations did a lot of tests on these actions and found this to be the case.

My warnings to the individual are valid. He will likely be just fine, if he sticks with 7.62x51 loadings, using .311 bullets, loaded to 303 Brit pressures. No reason at all that he should have problems. The British, Australian, Canadian and Indian militaries will likely disagree though.

The same thing goes for the 93-95-96 Mausers rechambered for the 7.62x51 actions. Things can and do change with the higher pressures of the 308Win. I have seen several of the Spanish 93s converted to 7.62 CETME with set back lugs in the receiver and a couple with cracks appearing on the bolt lugs. This has always occurred because the owners of said rifles were under the impression they could safely shoot off the shelf 308 Win or hotter handloads on a steady diet.

Keep within the specified pressure guidelines for all of these rifles and all will be well.

43,000 to 47,000 CUPs was pretty much the average standard pressure used by most militaries around the world, with the exceptions of Italy and Japan. Even they increased their pressures with caliber changes during WWII. Their rifles were built accordingly.

Yes, they are proof tested with extreme loads but that doesn't mean they can handle a steady diet of such loads.

I have a model 38 Husqvarna Swede milsurp action that I've converted to #### on opening and rebarreled with a 6mmRem take off. I load it to 50,000cups regularly. It is extremely accurate and I really like the rifle. So far, there is no sign of set back on the lugs.

In the case of the Lee Enfield types of actions, the lugs are at the rear of the bolt and the whole action as well as the bolt flex upon ignition. Sometimes this leads to stretching of the action with high pressure loads. This leads to a relatively unsafe condition if the action stretches enough and the case walls fail. The gasses and bits have no where to go but back at the shooter's face.
 
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Heres some pics gents. I know some purists will have a problem with the stock, but I bought it this way ;)
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Your pics only confirm that you have a No1 style rifle. It may or may not be one of the Indian 2 or 2A rifles. That information would be on the butt socket. If it is a 2 or 2A rifle it is very suitable for the 7.62 Nato and from what I've seen personally, even the commercial 308 loads available.

Very decent hunting rig.

The magazine looks to be after market as well as the stock.

From what I can see of the rear sight, it does indeed look to be one of the Indian 2 or 2A rifles
 
Thanks for the info bearhunter. It is a pretty nice gun, I couldn't pass up the legendary reliability of a Lee-Enfield rifle. I will most certainly get it checked out by a gunsmith to ensure safety. I should not there is zero signs of pitting in the barrel (in fact its in great shape), which leads me to believe it is not the original barrel (correct me if I'm wrong please). Im really excited about her, and I hope she can will be a good rifle to me.
 
A pic of the area under the bolt handle would be great, but from what you've posted it look's lika an Indian No3 Mk1 LEE Enfield.
 
The suggestion that the Indians used a tougher grade of steel for the 2AIs is very debatable it seems. I'm certainly no authority and have nothing to contribute to the debate either way, but there are lengthy discussions on the subject on a couple of the more knowledgeable enfield forums.
 
Having a Ishapore 2A1 I can say if feeds 7.62 Nato with no issue and works fantastically. The rifle in the pics has a magazine that looks exactly like the one on my 2A1. You need a picture of the right side where the bolt closes (it should have a year there as well as the model designation) so we can determine the action type.
 
Take a clear photo of the wrist markings. It looks like you bought the Ishapore 2A rifle that was a couple tables away from me. It was built as a 7.62. The squarish magazine is the giveaway.

As to the $250 magazine, could it be you were looking at a Sterling magazine? Personally I thought they are a $200 mag, but someone more in the know told me they are approaching $250 these days. They are much harder to find than to pay for. I had a DCRA rifle for sale with the mag at the show myself.
 
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The bolt ( underneath has a number 6, and what looks like an L or a 1). What do you think?
 
It looks like you just have a .303 which someone has converted to 7.62. On your earlier photos I note the receiver serial number and the barrel serial number are not the same. I would prefer seeing it in person before making the statement, but it is possible someone may have simply re-chambered an original 303 barrel to ,308, and installed it on this receiver. It is not ideal if that is the case.
 
yeah, I noticed non of the serial numbers matched up, which is why I think it may need to get a professional to look at it to ensure its safety. Its definitely not an Ishapore, nor one of the DCRA conversions. Barrel looks like its in pretty good shape, has no pitting or anything and good rifling in it. I am curious about how it will extract (or if it will extract), and if it can fire true and safe.
 
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