308 load

Big k said:
Hi guys
I am new to reloading. I am having a huge accuracy issue. My rifle is a Remington 700 target tactical. It's usually about 1" to 1 1/2" moa with factory ammo.



I just tried reloading my first batch of 308 last weekend. I went to the range on Saturday. I was shooting 8 inch groups of a bench rest at 100 yards. Of coarse this is ridiculous. I checked my scope mounts and my rifle. I tried factory ammo and back to 1 inch groups. So it is definitely my reloading.

I am using imr 4064 powder (44 gr.) and hornady GMX bullets 165 grain
I weigh each load carefully. I even measure each round (2.810 inches)

I was hoping some of the reloading gurus might have an idea as to what I could be doing wrong. I would like to try a different batch next weekend

Any ideas would help. Thanks in advance
Click to expand...

I guess nobody bothered to consult a Hornady manual
Hornady 8th edition.

Test rifle: Winchester 70
Barrel: 22" 1-12" twist
Case: Hornady/Frontier
Primer: Federal 210

165gr Hornady GMX #30470 C.O.L 2.750"

IMR 4064: Starting load 35.0gr 2100fps Max load 43.3gr 2600fps.

I would start over from their starting load and load in 1.5 gr incriments 5 rounds of each.

That will give you a good starting point.

Since you have 4064 you can get some 168gr SMK's and duplicate the Federal Gold Medal Match load with 42.7gr in federal cases and 210m primers.

My suggestion to you is to specify all components being used including cases and primers.
Also IMR and Hodgdons make 4064 so specify what it is you have.
Powders can also vary lot to lot so you may need to tweak a pet load if a new batch of powder is used.

Edited to add: If you want to learn about load development google Dan Newberry OCW
 
Last edited:
Well, I can't be faulted for spelling errors on weekends!

It's just I have fought before and by changing to a tangent ogive from a secant and had very dramatic results with the same OAL, and a major difference in distance to lands.

AOL , isn't that some internet based company in the U.S.?? ;)

kamlooky said:
Alright, check the AOL of factory and match it.............how's that fer ya bouy? I'll match your u.
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H4831 said:
Your rifle shoots good with factory ammo and terrible with your handloads.
There is no use, whatsoever, in changing powder charges by little increments, or changing the seating depth, etc.
The only logical explanation is the bullet.
308 rifles were originally built with 12 inch twist and that would easily stabalize 180 grain bullets. However, for some reason, your rifle seems to not stabalize the bullets you are using.
Click to expand...


Yes, scrap the bullet. Your barrel obviously hates it. I'll bet you you can randomly select any lead/copper bullet of the same or lighter weight, seat half of them upside down, pull a powder charge out of your ass and it will shoot better than 8".
 
thump_rrr said:
I guess nobody bothered to consult a Hornady manual
Hornady 8th edition.

Test rifle: Winchester 70
Barrel: 22" 1-12" twist
Case: Hornady/Frontier
Primer: Federal 210

165gr Hornady GMX #30470 C.O.L 2.750"

IMR 4064: Starting load 35.0gr 2100fps Max load 43.3gr 2600fps.

I would start over from their starting load and load in 1.5 gr incriments 5 rounds of each.

That will give you a good starting point.

Since you have 4064 you can get some 168gr SMK's and duplicate the Federal Gold Medal Match load with 42.7gr in federal cases and 210m primers.

My suggestion to you is to specify all components being used including cases and primers.
Also IMR and Hodgdons make 4064 so specify what it is you have.
Powders can also vary lot to lot so you may need to tweak a pet load if a new batch of powder is used.

Edited to add: If you want to learn about load development google Dan Newberry OCW
Click to expand...

Agree, according to Quickload your load is above max, with pressures of 60,000psi, The highest safe load for H4064 is 40gn which yields a much safer PSI of 45,000. it is not uncommon for such high pressure loads to shoot erratically. I would take a close look at your brass as well given the high pressures.
I have found Barnes solid copper bullets to generate much higher pressures at the same wt as leadcore bullets. This is likely related to the increased bearing surface, these bullets have a lower density, and hence are longer.

Below are some recommended powders and load, these do not translate well into this format, but the first # is % case fill, the next is load in gns, then load in grams, finally mvel in fps.


Cartridge : .308 Winchester
Bullet : .308, 165, Hornady GMX 30470
Useable Case Capaci: 47.086 grain H2O = 3.057 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 30.0 inch = 762.0 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 52501 psi, or 361 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 100 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
1 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Accurate 2520 97.3 43.5 2.82 2791 100.0 52502 5254 1.397 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495 100.0 41.0 2.66 2777 100.0 52282 5026 1.424 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 100.0 46.2 3.00 2766 94.7 49366 5857 1.417
Hodgdon H380 100.0 44.3 2.87 2756 97.3 50276 5634 1.417
Norma 203 old 100.0 43.9 2.84 2748 99.3 48003 5553 1.444
Accurate 2460 90.6 42.2 2.74 2745 100.0 52502 5105 1.413 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R901 95.1 39.2 2.54 2731 100.0 52502 4981 1.424 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 100.0 45.9 2.97 2704 93.2 44713 5792 1.463
Somchem S355 100.0 42.5 2.75 2686 98.6 45855 5398 1.475
Rottweil R903 100.0 42.9 2.78 2681 98.6 44616 5410 1.491
IMR 4007 SSC 100.0 44.0 2.85 2675 93.5 48784 5400 1.448
Vihtavuori N550 100.0 44.3 2.87 2653 95.5 41100 5702 1.519
Accurate 4064 100.0 40.6 2.63 2627 99.9 41694 5121 1.560
Rottweil R907 100.0 42.6 2.76 2591 92.1 44086 5231 1.512
Lovex-S0651 100.0 42.5 2.75 2572 94.1 41819 5209 1.545
Norma URP 100.0 42.9 2.78 2569 94.3 37398 5474 1.579
Bofors RP19 ~approximation 100.0 42.9 2.78 2568 94.3 37363 5471 1.579
Hodgdon H4350 100.0 43.2 2.80 2564 92.2 38267 5480 1.563
Ramshot Hunter 100.0 44.8 2.90 2553 91.4 37343 5516 1.582
Lovex-S0701 100.0 42.9 2.78 2541 91.7 39419 5251 1.580
Norma 204 100.0 44.8 2.90 2540 87.7 39375 5329 1.557
Somchem S365 100.0 43.2 2.80 2517 96.6 33221 5486 1.641
IMR 4350 100.0 41.6 2.69 2492 90.0 35585 5229 1.617
Somchem S361 100.0 46.2 3.00 2465 88.4 35663 5114 1.627
Raufoss RA4 100.0 43.4 2.81 2454 85.8 35598 5114 1.625
Bofors RP4 ~approximation 100.0 43.4 2.81 2454 85.8 35598 5114 1.625
Accurate 4350 100.0 41.5 2.69 2433 91.8 30826 5254 1.708
ADI AR 2209 100.0 43.2 2.80 2424 84.5 34323 5096 1.648
IMR 4831 100.0 41.6 2.69 2422 92.0 31520 5104 1.696
Alliant Reloder-19 100.0 43.4 2.81 2418 84.7 33273 5125 1.666
Rottweil R904 100.0 42.8 2.77 2413 84.1 35322 4866 1.641
Bofors RP14 ~approximation 100.0 43.4 2.81 2392 84.1 32547 5033 1.683
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 100.0 40.6 2.63 2390 93.7 31188 4882 1.703
Winchester Supreme 780 100.0 45.8 2.97 2380 84.1 33544 4909 1.671
Norma MRP 100.0 45.3 2.93 2375 83.2 29507 5419 1.734
Somchem S385 100.0 43.9 2.84 2370 85.8 30887 4979 1.719
IMR 7828 SSC 100.0 44.6 2.89 2333 78.1 30929 4991 1.721
Hodgdon H4831 SC 100.0 43.9 2.84 2332 79.7 32065 4758 1.705
Vihtavuori N560 100.0 44.3 2.87 2319 77.2 29022 5075 1.757
ADI AR 2213 100.0 43.9 2.84 2317 78.0 30693 4898 1.729
Alliant Reloder-22 100.0 43.9 2.84 2316 80.6 28467 5072 1.768
Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation 100.0 43.9 2.84 2316 80.6 28467 5072 1.768
Raufoss RA15 100.0 43.9 2.84 2316 80.6 28467 5072 1.768
Accurate MAGPRO 100.0 46.1 2.99 2261 73.4 27580 4909 1.817
Rottweil R905 100.0 43.1 2.79 2249 76.9 27700 4688 1.799
Winchester WXR 100.0 42.9 2.78 2247 78.6 26392 4858 1.825
Hodgdon H4831 100.0 42.2 2.73 2232 77.1 28479 4482 1.790
Vihtavuori N160 100.0 41.6 2.70 2229 79.6 28890 4343 1.787
Vihtavuori N165 100.0 42.9 2.78 2212 81.0 27088 4446 1.822
IMR 7828 100.0 42.2 2.73 2189 73.9 26198 4543 1.843
Alliant Reloder-25 100.0 43.2 2.80 2168 79.1 24151 4754 1.895
Ramshot Magnum (Big Boy) 100.0 46.5 3.01 2149 71.4 25572 4590 1.891
SNPE Vectan SP 12 100.0 46.3 3.00 2144 71.5 25382 4572 1.897
ADI AP 2214 100.0 45.1 2.92 2139 71.3 26363 4327 1.858
PB Clermont PCL 517 100.0 46.3 3.00 2138 71.1 25263 4551 1.902
Accurate 3100 100.0 41.0 2.66 2102 80.9 21585 4384 1.978
Norma MRP 2 100.0 43.4 2.81 2053 69.5 21247 4365 2.034
Hodgdon H1000 100.0 42.9 2.78 2016 67.2 22664 3901 1.977
Vihtavuori N570 100.0 45.8 2.97 1973 57.7 20710 4019 2.068
Hodgdon Retumbo 100.0 43.6 2.83 1943 64.6 19696 3848 2.085
Vihtavuori N170 100.0 42.9 2.78 1920 61.8 19686 3639 2.134
Lovex-D1001 100.0 46.7 3.03 1919 57.3 21726 3464 2.069
Vihtavuori 24N41 100.0 46.2 3.00 1884 52.3 20775 3348 2.106
ADI AR 2218 100.0 46.2 3.00 1833 48.1 19441 3206 2.164
Hodgdon H870 100.0 44.8 2.90 1808 53.6 17063 3408 2.259
Hodgdon 50BMG 100.0 44.1 2.86 1754 46.0 17293 3000 2.268
Hodgdon US 869 100.0 46.2 3.00 1738 47.7 16963 2970 2.296
SNPE Vectan SP 13 100.0 44.3 2.87 1699 50.6 15416 2964 2.380
PB Clermont PCL 513/520/9520 100.0 44.3 2.87 1655 47.5 14741 2773 2.432
Accurate 8700 100.0 44.4 2.88 1615 44.7 14641 2537 2.459
Vihtavuori 20N29 100.0 46.7 3.03 1610 43.1 14378 2626 2.468
NC A3502 ,test only 100.0 42.5 2.75 1579 33.8 15458 2020 2.434
TLP A 502(RH) ,test only 100.0 42.5 2.75 1553 35.6 14287 2096 2.503
V1734 7-multiperf ,test only 100.0 42.5 2.75 1147 17.0 9008 995 3.287
 
I tried those bullets in my 5R for $hits and giggles. Needless to say, it was all cursing and no giggling. My rifle hates them. I get .5 MOA with any other 165-168gr bullet/powder combination.
 
Hi guys thank you very much for all of your suggestions and information. All of it was very helpful. I actually figured it out. It seams (like some of you suggested) my rifle hates the GMX bullets. I tried hornady match 168 grn and Sierra match 2200 165 grn. Both seamed to work well. I did 5 round sets in .5 grain increments. Results varied from 3/4 inch MOA to 1 1/2inch MOA. Needles to say I am much happier with those results. So I am on my way to developing an accurate load for my riffle.
 
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