.308 or 6.5 x 284

catseye72

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Hey all, long time listener, first time caller . . .:)

I am considering a Precision rifle, and am in the early stages of the "what-to-buy" game. I have a couple of possibilities in mind and am wondering at this point about size. .308 and 6.5x284.

In my preliminary look .308 seems much more available than the 6.5x284 for components for hand loads, but from what I read for Precision Target shooting the 6.5 is superior.

Any thoughts?

:sniper:
 
Yeah. here's a thought - forget both of them and start with a good quality .223 Rem. and a decent .22 RF. Learn to shoot those and you'll save some coin in the pocess.

If you have to pick from either of the cartidges you selected, take the .308 Win. everytime. You'll wear the 6.5x284 out before you've learned how to shoot. .308 Win. is far more forgiving in being able to find accurate load configurations.

Let me guess, you're considering a Savage?
 
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You did not mention if you are an experienced ammo loader or shooter.

I have given up shooting Target Rifle and switched over to F Class. I find F Class different, more relaxed and more fun. TR is what I used to take quite seriously.

You can often find a used 308 target rifle (a real one, as used in DCRA type competition) for about $600 to $1,000. That is probably less than the cost of the action. Put a scope on the rifle and you can do a lot of shooting and learning.

As for 6.5-284, I have burned out 3 barrels already in that caliber. Get about 2,000 roudns out of it. Some guys get terrific short range accuracy out of their but I never did. Would not hold the V bull at 500 yards for me.

Along the way I aquired a CIL 950T (Savage) with a new hart barrel in 6.5x55. I bought it from Paul Reibin for $450. (The original owner must have paid more than that for the barrel and chambering.) I intended to re-chamber it to 6.5x284, but tried it out first. It shot like a house on fire. I lent it to a friend who took it to Bisley to shoot the Millenium F Class Championships. he shot quite a few possibles.

It got left in that caliber and shot out at about 3,000 rounds. It had a 30" barrel and this got me thinking that maybe I don't need a 6.5-284 for the velocity. It was only about 100 fps slower than my wife's 28" 6.5-284.

So I rebarreled all our 6.5-284s over to 6.5-08 Ackley. With Winchester 308 brass sized in a 260 Rem FL die, we fire form the brass with a Sierra 140 Match bullet on top of 45 to 46 gr of IMR4350. About 2800 fps. At short ranges this ammo holds the V bull easily.

The formed brass is shot with the same bullet on top of 50 to 51 gr of RL22. OAL is 2.925 (chamber is deep so bullet can be seated long.) Velocity runs between 2925 and 3000 fps. (Each rifle is different, and the wife's has a 32" barrel.)

These loads work well in my barrels (McLennan) chambered with my chamber design (available from JGS). They are probably hot and at least 5 grains over where a load test should start.

If a Remington or Lapua case is used, my load is 1 or 2 grains less.

From what I have seen so far, the case capacity of the Winchester case is identical to the 6.5x55. Just shorter and fatter. Velocity is about the same as what most 6.5-284 shooters use as an accuracy load, so we don't give up anything at long range.

It looks like short range accuracy is better, even with the case forming loads, and I expect barrel life to be longer than teh 6.5x284.

Barrel life of a blue 308 is in the order of 2,000 rounds. A stainless 308 is about double that. Some have lasted much longer.

If you new at loading, I suggest you buy a 308 and get some expereince. By the time you burn the barrel out ( a year or two) you can consider a 6.5.

If you are an experienced loader, then running 308 (or 7-08 cases through a 260 die is no big deal. I doubt that components are an issue. I buy bullets by the 1,000 bullet box and have never had any trouble locating more when I need them.

Each of our rifles has its own dedicated batch of brass - 500 pieces each. That seems to be enough. I scrap the brass when I scrap the barrel. new brass is weighed and sorted in .5 grain batches and loaded into 50 round boxes. Bullets are bought a few thousand for each rifel at a time, and primers in cases of 5000. This way there is no change in components over the course of the barrel.

308 is a bit more forgiving to load than 6.5, so keeping components a constant lot number is a good idea. The long bearing surface of the 6.5 bullet measn things can get out of hand quickly if the load is too hot, or, say, becomes too hot because it is a hot day.

I saw a very badly blown primer form the first shot in a rifle loaded with the Starting load in the book. Same ammo was quite mild in another 6.5x55.

If you opt for a 6.5, I suggest you consider starting with a 260 Rem Ackley (same as a 6.5-08 Ackley).
 
6.5X284 is the cartridge to beat in 1000 yd/meter f-class competition. It is inherently accurate and it propels the highest Ballistic coefficient 6.5 bullets at speeds in excess of 3000 fps.

6.5X284 burns out barrels in 1000 rounds and for all intents and purposes it is not a cartridge you will find in a factory load.

If you are just getting your feet wet, give it a very wide berth.

308 is a good choice, 223 is an EXCELLENT choice, and with the right rig, it is competitive to 1000 meters.
 
Unless you have access to 500 yards or more steadily the 6.5 x 284 is a waste.

What others have said about .223, 6BR, 6.5 x 55 or 7 mm.08 is solid advise.

If you are new to the game go with the .223, imo.
 
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223 with 75gr Amax = 308 with 168/175gr. 1/2 the cost, 1/3 the recoil

6.5 Mystic/260AI = 6.5.284 with about 50% more case life.

6BR/6XC/6 - 47L. Nice but drift more then the 6.5 and cost about the same to shoot. Recoil is less.

Suggest you get a 9 twist 223 Savage and practise, practise, practise.

75gr Amx, CCI450, Win brass, Varget powder, Lee collet neck die set. Bed the action, lighten the trigger and you have a rig you can plink out to a mile.

Focus your funds on quality optics. Elite 4200 is a great starting line up. For a bit more money but better optical quality and heaps of adj - Sightron SIII LR side focus.

Burris Sig rings with inserts on a Weaver or canted base (EGW/Farrel).
Jerry
 
I wouldn't rule out a standard 243 win or a 6mm rem either, I shoot my 243 savage 12 vlp to 1000 yards everytime i go out and it always perfrorms. It is even better now that the 95gr SMKs came out, just something else to consider.And like Jerry said bed the action, turn down the trigger, collet neck size, and shot it till the barrel is toast, then scew on a pac-nor or shieln and start again
 
You did not mention if you are an experienced ammo loader or shooter.

I have given up shooting Target Rifle and switched over to F Class. I find F Class different, more relaxed and more fun. TR is what I used to take quite seriously.

You can often find a used 308 target rifle (a real one, as used in DCRA type competition) for about $600 to $1,000. That is probably less than the cost of the action. Put a scope on the rifle and you can do a lot of shooting and learning.

As for 6.5-284, I have burned out 3 barrels already in that caliber. Get about 2,000 roudns out of it. Some guys get terrific short range accuracy out of their but I never did. Would not hold the V bull at 500 yards for me.

Along the way I aquired a CIL 950T (Savage) with a new hart barrel in 6.5x55. I bought it from Paul Reibin for $450. (The original owner must have paid more than that for the barrel and chambering.) I intended to re-chamber it to 6.5x284, but tried it out first. It shot like a house on fire. I lent it to a friend who took it to Bisley to shoot the Millenium F Class Championships. he shot quite a few possibles.

It got left in that caliber and shot out at about 3,000 rounds. It had a 30" barrel and this got me thinking that maybe I don't need a 6.5-284 for the velocity. It was only about 100 fps slower than my wife's 28" 6.5-284.

So I rebarreled all our 6.5-284s over to 6.5-08 Ackley. With Winchester 308 brass sized in a 260 Rem FL die, we fire form the brass with a Sierra 140 Match bullet on top of 45 to 46 gr of IMR4350. About 2800 fps. At short ranges this ammo holds the V bull easily.

The formed brass is shot with the same bullet on top of 50 to 51 gr of RL22. OAL is 2.925 (chamber is deep so bullet can be seated long.) Velocity runs between 2925 and 3000 fps. (Each rifle is different, and the wife's has a 32" barrel.)

These loads work well in my barrels (McLennan) chambered with my chamber design (available from JGS). They are probably hot and at least 5 grains over where a load test should start.

If a Remington or Lapua case is used, my load is 1 or 2 grains less.

From what I have seen so far, the case capacity of the Winchester case is identical to the 6.5x55. Just shorter and fatter. Velocity is about the same as what most 6.5-284 shooters use as an accuracy load, so we don't give up anything at long range.

It looks like short range accuracy is better, even with the case forming loads, and I expect barrel life to be longer than teh 6.5x284.

Barrel life of a blue 308 is in the order of 2,000 rounds. A stainless 308 is about double that. Some have lasted much longer.

If you new at loading, I suggest you buy a 308 and get some expereince. By the time you burn the barrel out ( a year or two) you can consider a 6.5.

If you are an experienced loader, then running 308 (or 7-08 cases through a 260 die is no big deal. I doubt that components are an issue. I buy bullets by the 1,000 bullet box and have never had any trouble locating more when I need them.

Each of our rifles has its own dedicated batch of brass - 500 pieces each. That seems to be enough. I scrap the brass when I scrap the barrel. new brass is weighed and sorted in .5 grain batches and loaded into 50 round boxes. Bullets are bought a few thousand for each rifel at a time, and primers in cases of 5000. This way there is no change in components over the course of the barrel.

308 is a bit more forgiving to load than 6.5, so keeping components a constant lot number is a good idea. The long bearing surface of the 6.5 bullet measn things can get out of hand quickly if the load is too hot, or, say, becomes too hot because it is a hot day.

I saw a very badly blown primer form the first shot in a rifle loaded with the Starting load in the book. Same ammo was quite mild in another 6.5x55.

If you opt for a 6.5, I suggest you consider starting with a 260 Rem Ackley (same as a 6.5-08 Ackley).

I've had the same experience with the 6.5X284, very hard to keep on tune. By the time you get the Cal shooting the barrels shot out. I would recommend the 6BR if you are shooting out to 600M's. I is very accurate, easy to tune. burns less powder, Last's 3000 rounds. If you are going to shoot past 600M I would recommend 260 or 260AI, very accurate with the 142-139 bullets have had great results out to 900M with this Cal.
 
I wouldn't rule out a standard 243 win or a 6mm rem either, I shoot my 243 savage 12 vlp to 1000 yards everytime i go out and it always perfrorms. It is even better now that the 95gr SMKs came out, just something else to consider.And like Jerry said bed the action, turn down the trigger, collet neck size, and shot it till the barrel is toast, then scew on a pac-nor or shieln and start again

They are good cartridges, but they last only a few hundred rounds more than a 6.5X284.

Like Brent says, a 6BR is pretty hard to fault.
 
Don't use 168/175gr. SMK bullets as your benchmark for longrange 308 performance. With 155 Scenars or 190+ VLDs, the 308 is a decent performer at 1000 yards. And the barrels will last much longer. Some have been tested by the FBI and Marines to last over 10k rounds, while still delivering sub MOA accuracy.
 
Don't use 168/175gr. SMK bullets as your benchmark for longrange 308 performance. With 155 Scenars or 190+ VLDs, the 308 is a decent performer at 1000 yards. And the barrels will last much longer. Some have been tested by the FBI and Marines to last over 10k rounds, while still delivering sub MOA accuracy.

Very true, I have heard winning barrels last 5000 rounds on the 308.
 
Don't use 168/175gr. SMK bullets as your benchmark for longrange 308 performance. With 155 Scenars or 190+ VLDs, the 308 is a decent performer at 1000 yards. And the barrels will last much longer. Some have been tested by the FBI and Marines to last over 10k rounds, while still delivering sub MOA accuracy.

I guess I'm doing things all wrong with my 175gr SMKs coming out of my 21.3/4" Rock Creek bbl doing 2800+fps. my 1000yd drop is 31MOA from a 100yd zero. The Scenars are a high BC bullet but depending on use, don't have the killing energy at long distance.

I must be one of few people that think the gun you shoot out to 1000yds with should actually be able to do some damage when it gets there. Go 308 and buy good quality glass.
 
I guess I'm doing things all wrong with my 175gr SMKs coming out of my 21.3/4" Rock Creek bbl doing 2800+fps. my 1000yd drop is 31MOA from a 100yd zero. The Scenars are a high BC bullet but depending on use, don't have the killing energy at long distance.

I must be one of few people that think the gun you shoot out to 1000yds with should actually be able to do some damage when it gets there. Go 308 and buy good quality glass.

Not sure what ballistics calculator you're using, but all of mine show the 155 Scenar launched @2950 fps retains more energy than the 175 SMK launched @2800 fps at 1k.

If I wanted damage, any of the Nosler 180gr. poly-tipped bullets will beat the SMK in wind and drop at that distance and are actually designed for that purpose.
 
Thanks

Hey guys, thanks for all the input!

I hadn't really looked at specific models to buy yet, Savage or otherwise, I was more looking at the caliber to dictate where my choices would be. I think I hit the basics and extend as I go by the sounds of it!

Not new to shooting, but new to shooting long distance and reloading.

Thanks for all the advice.

KYSOTI :sniper:
 
I can get to 3000fps but I prefer to have my brass last a long time.

2900/2925 is the next node. Might decide to add another grain of powder after the Farky.

If I was competing at beyond 600yds, I would likely try moly and see how close I can get it to 3000fps and still hold the accuracy.

Next adventure - Re17 IF they ever bring enough into the continent to try.

Jerry
 
I just missed it... should have bought some. But I couldn't bring myself to pay the $25 handling fee for 1 lbs of powder and I had just stocked up...

Its in the latest QL powder file and its coming out on top in velocity very often, for a pretty wide range of bullets too.

Edit: I found a source and ordered 5 lbs. I'll let you know how it works...
 
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