Has anyone had any experience with the 308 Win Palma brass from Lapua that uses small rifle primers? Just curious as to how the performance compares to the large rifle primer. The claims are enhanced performance for long range. Reminds me of the old 308 BR brass that had the small rifle primer pocket. Curious...
308 Palma brass
- Thread starter hend238
- Start date
In bench rest shooting there are a few calibers that use small primers whereas their "parent" brass uses large, as you mentioned. There are reliable data over the years to support the claim that smaller primers give more uniform "burn" with longer time-pressure curves that cause less distortion to the bullet in the bore. I suppose that the choice of powder will also come into play and ball powders don't respond well to less priming compound.
Which BR cartridges are you referring to that have parent cases with LR primers other than the 308 BR? I understand the concept of the small rifle primer but was curious if that would really make a difference at "Palma" ranges. Accuracy improvement yes but better ballistics for long range? Just thinking out loud. Thanks for the insight.
Edit...Though the 6BR sure performs well at a 1000 yards so there's proof of the small rifle primer concept.
Last edited:
I thought the primer size was something from 20 years ago and it did not work out.
I guy I new that was into bench rest at the time spent a year with small primer brass trying to gain an advantage. In the end there was none and went back to the large primer.
hs
I guy I new that was into bench rest at the time spent a year with small primer brass trying to gain an advantage. In the end there was none and went back to the large primer.
hs
hs...Yes the small primer 308 BR brass was from years ago. I have no experience with it myself though and cannot comment on it's effectiveness hence my earlier question. What calibre(s) was that guy using in bench rest where he was trying to gain an advantage by using small rifle primers? The 6ppc with it's small primer, at least in short range BR has dominated for quite some time now. Can't think of a calibre with a large rifle primer that could even come close to being competitive in short range bench rest these days. Maybe for score but not for group shooting.
The Lapua Palma brass was developd at the request of US Palma shooters. Some report smaller grouping at 300+ meters. Another report indicates that this brass can withstand higher pressures.
Best regards,
Peter Dobson
Hirsch Precision Inc.
Lapua in Canada
Best regards,
Peter Dobson
Hirsch Precision Inc.
Lapua in Canada
It is my understanding that the Palma chamber's leade is optimized (shorter) for the 155g bullet with all other dimensions being the same. So you could use 308 Win brass in your palma rifle but will be limited to your bullet selection. The barrel is probably a 1x13 twist as well. Don't quote me on this though. I'm just learning about this myself. Good luck with the new rifle!
Thanks Peter. Hey do you have any triple deuce brass in stock? I'm running some high pressures in my 222 Rem and I'm in need of some that strong Lapua brass.
Tested them for about a year, for the same load the small primer is about 25-45fps slower then the large, result will vari, it depends on the powder that you use...
ES are about the same, accuracy is also similar. Shot them in extreme cold (-25) no ignition or ES problem. The only real advantage is that you can push them a lot harder without getting your pocket primer loose
ES are about the same, accuracy is also similar. Shot them in extreme cold (-25) no ignition or ES problem. The only real advantage is that you can push them a lot harder without getting your pocket primer loose
The 22PPC and 6PPC have their parent cases in the 7.62x39 mm (aka the AK-47 round) but they have been made to use small primers. I believe the 6PPC dominates benchrest shooting so there may be a good reason. Of course, the case capacity is quite a bit smaller than that of the .308. As for a small primer case withstanding higher pressures, it makes sense since more of the base is thick brass. I believe Remington makes their 7.62 x 39 mm cases with small primers exactly for this reason.
Abman, when you say BR in 308 Palma, what do you mean? Is it a "Palma" chambering? What is the rifle?
Arrowhead, thanks, some have obtained similar results to yours, while others are shooting smaller grupus, such as 2011 Canadian Gov. General winner and Palma team member, Ian Hogg, PEI.
We, as a business, prefer caution on jumping on bandwagon of "new, so must be better"
The British, once again and desrevedly so, are the longrange champions of the world(Palma Australia) and they used throw away Berdan primed brass to save money!
Regards,
Peter
Arrowhead, thanks, some have obtained similar results to yours, while others are shooting smaller grupus, such as 2011 Canadian Gov. General winner and Palma team member, Ian Hogg, PEI.
We, as a business, prefer caution on jumping on bandwagon of "new, so must be better"
The British, once again and desrevedly so, are the longrange champions of the world(Palma Australia) and they used throw away Berdan primed brass to save money!
Regards,
Peter
The parent case for the PPC cartridges is the 220 Russian. Is the parent case for the 220 Russian the 7.62x39? I didn't know that. I'll have to look that up for myself.
Yes the 6ppc dominates bench rest shooting hands down.
220 Russian parent case IS the 7.62x39. You know I never thought about it but it makes complete sense to me now. Thanks for the enlightenment.
The lot of British Palma ammo I have is boxer primed, when did the Brits go back to a Berdan primer? Very accurate ammo!
rnbra-shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Brunswick
These days, the Palma match is not shot using ammo issued by the host country, rather it is "BYOA" (Bring Your Own Ammo) so either the teams or the individual shooters supply the ammo. So long as the ammo meets the rules (basically: .308 Winchester, bullet less than 156 grains), all is fine. In practice most Palma teams will develop ammo for their team to use in the team match.
I don't know what ammo the Brits used this year though I could find out (and using Berdan primed brass is certainly a possibility). Like all of the teams, they have a great deal of experience with good .308 ammo and they would have made a sensible choice of bullet/powder/charge/primer/brass, and then they would have done a good job of execution (loading the ammo, making sure the rifles are in tune and up to snuff, etc).
The technical part of fielding a rifle and ammo combination that is good enough to win the Palma Match is straightforward. There might be a lot of details and a lot of work behind it, but there aren't any mystical magical secrets. Of the six teams that competed in the Palma Match in Brisbane two weeks ago I am sure that more than half of the teams had rifles+ammo capable of winning the match; in fact I think it's more likely that all six teams had rifles+ammo capable of winning the match. Standings in the match are then mostly a result of the skills of the shooters, the skills of the coaches, and the organization and management skills of the team's leadership.
You're most welcome. This is another valuable aspect of CGN's, the "collective" has so much information one can tap in that's not possible for any of us to know all.
Good shooting.
rnbra-shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Brunswick
Thanks Peter - sounds like first-hand, reliable information to me. Nice to see that so many Maritimers were able to make it to Australia, isn't it?
My mistake.I pulled a bullet, the British Palma was berdan primed. I have various Palma Boxed ammo, when was the last time Canada made their own Palma? Some of the brass is even stamped PALMA, with the year. Boxes are either 17 rounds, or 20 rounds.
