.308 Popularity...

[Gunslinger]

Don't be too sure, elephants are pretty big!

I was watching a documentary where they were culling some elephants, the ranger was using a FAL, he killed about 4 in a couple minutes, all brain shots, in the clear, bang flop.

The 7mm is good enough for elephant but brain shots only. An elephant offers a larger traget for a brain shots than say a buff, also elephants generally charge straight on, make easier targets to spot since they're taller and generally in more open bush. A buff on the other hand moves more erratically, lots of time from cover, and ois a smaller tougher target with almost no brain.

Ross Seyfried apparently tried shooting a buff in the brain with a .22mag semi auto, all ten shots dead centre and the buff just looked at them before they dispatched it with a bigger gun.

Shot placement is key, but animal size and toughness does make a difference so I wouldn't compare what guys did turn of the century hunting elephants with 7mm even though it is intriguing. For nasty animals I'd rather be safe and carry a bigger gun. For bear I'd feel better with a 45-70 than a .308. But for NA you could get away with a .308 for almost everything even if it is streching it a little. A short compact .308 scout rifle could do it all, but then so could a .375 Ruger Alaskan with a little more of a comfort zone.

 

[LA cowboy]

Dorm... Ur 94 in 307 leaves me humbled... is that a adjustable peep on the back end??
How many of these were made??

 

[stuckon308]

Around here the .308 has an undeserved bad reputation amongst hunters.
I know a lot of guys who claim it's not capable of dropping a moose reliably, which is never firsthand experience. ( My sister-in-laws nephew knows a guy who shot a moose right through both lungs and it just walked away!!)
Another guy I hunt with has a Browning BLR and claimed they should have given him a pair of running shoes with the gun so he could chase the deer that ran away after he shot them.
I asked him what bullets he was using and he told me 180 Winchester Silvertips. I suggested 150 grain Corelokts and he said the first deer he shot never took a single step.
It's a fine round and very accurate and versatile. As well many of the rifles built for it(true short actions) are very light and handy.
The 308s biggest problem is a physically small case that leaves the uninformed with the impression that it's not a true big game rifle.

How the heck does he know that it went right through both lungs if it walked away? This always confused me when people say that they shot something..... but it walked or ran away.

 

[Calum]

I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy that had to shoot a Moose like 10 times with a 30.06 to kill it...so he bought a 300 Win Mag the next year.

 

[dorm]

Dorm... Ur 94 in 307 leaves me humbled... is that a adjustable peep on the back end??
How many of these were made??

You got it. I put a William's peep sight on it. It's a great setup.

The .307 was in production from 1983 to 1998. I can't say how many were made but low sales were instrumental in leading to it being discontinued. This was unfortunate. Anyone looking for a hard hitting lever with decent range can't go wrong with one of these.

As I get older and the eyes get foggier I might have to scope it, but for now the peep works fine for me.

 

[Boomer]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7x57mm_Mauser

"This made it popular in Africa, where it was used on animals up to and including elephants, for which it was particularly favoured by noted ivory hunter W. D. M. Bell, who shot 1,011 elephants using a 7x57mm rifle, when most ivory hunters were using larger-caliber rifles."

My comment was not to dispute that Bell often used 7X75s, .318s and other mouse guns (although he did have big bores available for emergencies) I was however suggesting that Bell wasn't necessarily a better shot than Mr.Dorito. Shooting elephants with the technique Bell used did not require great prowess as a marksman, but it did require coolness and nerve. I expect the cows and the juveniles were the real danger to him.

 

[Boomer]

I was watching a documentary where they were culling some elephants, the ranger was using a FAL, he killed about 4 in a couple minutes, all brain shots, in the clear, bang flop.

The 7mm is good enough for elephant but brain shots only. An elephant offers a larger traget for a brain shots than say a buff, also elephants generally charge straight on, make easier targets to spot since they're taller and generally in more open bush. A buff on the other hand moves more erratically, lots of time from cover, and ois a smaller tougher target with almost no brain.

Ross Seyfried apparently tried shooting a buff in the brain with a .22mag semi auto, all ten shots dead centre and the buff just looked at them before they dispatched it with a bigger gun.

Shot placement is key, but animal size and toughness does make a difference so I wouldn't compare what guys did turn of the century hunting elephants with 7mm even though it is intriguing. For nasty animals I'd rather be safe and carry a bigger gun. For bear I'd feel better with a 45-70 than a .308. But for NA you could get away with a .308 for almost everything even if it is streching it a little. A short compact .308 scout rifle could do it all, but then so could a .375 Ruger Alaskan with a little more of a comfort zone.

When Bell was shooting elephants for ivory he would position himself so that he would have a clear shot at the back of the elephants head where the skull was very thin. With the frontal brain shot the bullet must penetrate several feet of of spongy bone. We now know that long tapered, heavy for caliber solids, particularly those of the traditional Kynoch profile will not penetrate in a straight line. A solid must be short, have parallel sides and a round or flat nose to perform well. Bullets of this type were only available in the big bores at the time Bell was working. That is why Bell preferred to shoot his elephants from the quartering rear as he did not care for the recoil of the big guns of the day.

Hunting trophy elephants today is all about the confrontation which is why the frontal brain shot has become so in vogue. Hitting an elephant's brain with a frontal shot is like shooting at a VW and trying to hit the battery. The trick is to imagine a stick passing through the elephant's ear canal from one side of the head to the other, and your shot must break the stick. At 10 yards, this is not mechanically a difficult shot, but unless you've seen angry elephants up close it impossible to have a full understanding of the sensation. The PH will have his front sight on the elephants shoulder, and if at your shot there is still elephant in his sight picture he fires to prevent a charge. If your shot is successful the elephant immediately drops.

 

[H4831]

One could likely interchange between a 308 and 30-06 in the hunting field, using factory loaded ammo and never be able to detect any difference between the two. The difference in power between the two is about 40 to 50 yards. That is, a moose hit at 200 yards with a 308 would be hit about the same force as a moose hit at 240 yards with a 30-06. (Or close up with a 30-30.)
When the 308 became a Winchester creation on the sporting market, it obviously created a lot of pages of press. The general consensus was for a handloader the 30-06 was far superior. It was stated that a handloader would have trouble duplicating factory loads with the 308 but a 30-06 was loaded light in factory loadings, because of all the old and some oddball guns chambered for the 30-06. Thus, while there was not too much difference in factory loadings between the two, a creative handloader with a modern bolt action rifle, could make the 30-06 much superior to a 308.

 

[Joep17]

I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy that had to shoot a Moose like 10 times with a 30.06 to kill it...so he bought a 300 Win Mag the next year.

Perfect! Could not have said it better.

99.99% of the "it is the best ____" or "it is the worst ____" fill in the blank are exactly this type of shooting or hunting story passed through 17 people.

Don;t forget, 1 of those 17 might not have been a buddy, only a cousin who does not like you and the story MAY have been tweaked slightly.

 

[Pathfinder]

. Funny thing was when I dressed them all I found was bits of jacket left of the Federal Silvertip 7mm. On the 308 kills I did find nicely formed expanded slugs. Maybe a cowinkiedick but that was twice.

Your 7mm 's performance had nothing to do with being a smaller cal and it had everything to do with bullet performance .

That Silvertip might be fine a lower .308 win velocities and it obviously was not fine at 7 RM Velocities .

 

[Wally]

My comment was not to dispute that Bell often used 7X75s, .318s and other mouse guns (although he did have big bores available for emergencies) I was however suggesting that Bell wasn't necessarily a better shot than Mr.Dorito. Shooting elephants with the technique Bell used did not require great prowess as a marksman, but it did require coolness and nerve. I expect the cows and the juveniles were the real danger to him.

I wasn't correcting you I did some reading and thought it was interesting so I posted it. Think of it as value added

 

[45-70guide]

308 is the best all around cartridge shot one then youll know