.308 reloading question

klink1983

klink1983

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I started reloading too much too fast. My goal when I first started this addicting hobby was to develop as many recipes across many different powders as I could. Which would be very time consuming because I live 150km from where I work so I'm not home every night.

PROJECTILE WEIGHT: I currently have some H4895 as well as IMR4895. I've had success with it, and so have some military loads for long distance type .308 rounds. On account of time, and me bouncing all over the place with some of my thoughts, as well as component availability, I have 155, 165, 167, 168, and 178grain projectiles. Now you can see from a consistency perspective of loading the best round for mid to long distance.

When I started out reloading I grabbed some 168gr BTHP just because that is what I could find. Given what I am shooting, my rifle almost seems to like heavier projectiles which of course are longer and if I am right would provide for more stability in flight across a longer distance.

So, for a 20'' barrel that is 1:10'' who would shoot what weight of projectile if they were shooting at 600yards? That is the longest distance I have access to at the moment because my car can't get in anywhere near decent powerlines to try for 1000. I know with a 20'' barrel I am restricted a little bit in my desired distance to shoot....but I'm just curious on the thoughts of others on here who have more experience.

EXTRUDED VS BALL: Also, I want to know if anybody on here has been successful with ball powder...just because I happen to have 1.25lbs of W748 laying around. Not to sound like a know it all, but please save the usual disclaimer about me needing to do a proper battery of workup and testing while developing a custom load. My goal in the end is to just get one recipe that I know works.

PRIMERS: When I started out, I lucked out and snagged a few hundred CCI200 but due to availability where I am I have never been able to find any since. At the moment I have a whack of WLR, again because of availability. When I do develop a best recipe, how much would using a different primer effect the end result of how my round performs? I have been told that WLR seems to be a good quality primer in terms of how they burn, others have told me to avoid them like the plague.

Thanks in advance!

~ F
 
The Ontario Rifle Association conducts shoots on military ranges just about every weekend. If you join, you could shoot F Class and precision (sniper) at 300 to 1000 yards.

You could also take advantage of the training programs for both shooting and reloading, to learn from the guys who can actually do it - rather than just write about it on the Internet.

Primers come in cases of 5,000. Until you have one or two cases on your shelf, you will be screwed out of developing consistent ammo, because your primers will change lots, and maybe even brands.

Powder comes in 8 pound jugs, 4 to the case. Buy a case or two of the powder you intend to use. Buy 1 pound bottles to try out the various powders. Try Varget, RL15 and 4895. Then pick one and be done with it.

To answer some of your questions:

I used to use Federal and Winchester. I have heard Winchester quality has slipped. I still have 10,000 on the shelf, so it will be a while before I face that problem.

Recently I tested Russian primers and S&B primers. Very pleased with quality and price. get a few cases from Canada AMMo.

Bullets. If you want to shoot beyond 300 yards, use a long range bullet. With your rifle the first I would try is the Sierra 175 match, about 20 thou off the rifling.
 
I've had good luck with 168-grain Hornady A-Maxes out to 600 (on Yankee). Never tried ball powders; H4895 has always worked well for me. I'll use either Winchester or CCI BR primers, not Federal; Federal are apparently a bit soft of use in M14s.
 
With a 20" 1:10, I'd load 168's over your H4895, with whatever primers you have.
I'd also put all the other components you have, back on the shelf. Perfect the one load before experimenting with anything else.

Fwiw, you're no more limited by barrel length, than the .308 itself. Don't even worry about it.

Add;
Once you've got your load, you'll have a great 600yd rifle, a good 800yd rifle, and an ok 1000yd rifle. If you find more distance, take the shot. What have you got to lose.

Good luck
 
Check the chamber throat to see what bullet will fit best. 168gr BTHP is a no brainer for what you have described. 155/155.5 palma bullets can also work with a short enough throat. 175gr seems to be the most popular mid/long range bullet before getting into the heavies.

Ball powder will be temp sensitive so load tuning will be constant relative to ambient temp. Test to see what happens. competition shooters dont use it cause we can't load at the range. Otherwise, it can work well for rock smacking. magnum primers might help too.

For where you are now, just about any LR primer will work. Always start over and work up for any component change.

Enjoy

Jerry
 
There's an old saying along the lines of, "if your .308 won't shoot well with IMR4895, then you have a rifle problem". Here's another hint; military match ammo was loaded with both IMR3031 and IMR4895.

The 168gr match bullets, any of Hornady, Sierra or Nosler, work very well. Primers aren't really that much of a concern. I've had very good results with all of IMR4895, IMR3031, IMR4064, H4895, Varget, BLC2 and W748. My best performing propellant in both a M700 Rem heavy barrel .308 and a Model 70 Win .308 sporter is WC755, an Olin commercial grade ball powder which is no longer available. Nowadays I'd start with IMR4895. I'd pay attention to case preparation with cases being sorted by firing cycle and weight. Cases should be trimmed to a uniform length. Flash hole deburring and primer pocker uniforming can help.
 
If you enjoy reloading for its own sake, as many of us do, you can load up all sorts of different powders and bullets for your .308W, most of which will shoot quite well.

If you are reloading mostly as a means to the end of having (relatively!) cheap and very accurate ammo, you can trim things out quite mercillessly. Loading good accurate ammo for a .308Win is a well-solved problem, all you have to do is be guided by any of the well-proven combinations that are well known. For example, if you want to shoot 155s, use any piece of brass, any primer, any 155 match bullet, and work up to 46 grains of Varget - you will not likely be disappointed. It's not a terribly fascinating or romantic way to come up with a good load, but if you are looking for short sweet and effective there it is.

If you want to load good ammo for your .308 Win that will be accurate out to 600-700 yards, things are very simple. There are many shortcuts you can take, and many picky details that matter for 1000 yard ammo that you can ignore and gloss over, while still producing ammo that will shoot very accurately from 100 to 600/700 yards. For example:
- use any HPBT match bullet, by any manufacturer, of any weight from 125 to 215 grains
- if you use one of the many jump-tolerant bullets out there, you can simply seat to standard 2.800" magazine length and not bother with tuning the distance to the lands
- use any kind of brass
- use any primer
- use any medium-burn-rate rifle powder, stick or ball
- carefully throw your powder charges; no need to measure each charge's weight

If you want to load highly accurate .308W for 1000 yards, there are some things you will want to do differently or pay more attention to. But restricting ourselves to the mid-range world (say 700 yards and closer), here are some comments on your points:

Bullet weight - your 10"-twist barrel will successfully stabilize all bullets up to at least 200 grains. Any and every HPBT match bullet on the market can be expected to give you good performance. Some very high performance HPBT match bullets can be extremely "fussy" to load, meaning that they will give you mediocre results until you find a pretty-finely-tuned window of parameters that produce good results (mostly powder charge weight and seating depth).

You will probably find quick and good results with any of the "medium performance" match bullets out there:
- the 155 grain Sierra #2155 (the "old" Palma bullet), in preference to the newer #2156
- Sierra 168, 175 and 190 Matchking
- Berger 155.5 or 155 Hybrid (but not the 155 VLD)
- Nosler 155 grain HPBT match bullet
- any of the Hornady "BTHP" bullets (not Amax, which is a higher performance but fussier design)

Your 20" barrel will not present any obstacle to getting good performance out to medium range.

Powder types - for topnotch 1000-yard competition there is a certain preference for stick powders, at least part of which is superstition but there might also be some truth to it too. For medium range shooting, any medium burn rate powders, stick or ball, can be expected to give very good results. An incomplete list of powders that can be expected to give you good results would include 4895 (IMR and H), 4064, Varget, 748, 335, BL-C(2), Reloder-15, N140. Do not buy a pound of each of these powders and try them all. Buy any one of them, buy as much as you can reasonably afford, and use it.

Primers - Federal 210 match or regular, Winchester Large Rifle, CCI regular or BR-2, can all be expected to work well. Buy at least a brick (1000 primers) but preferably a case (5000) if the opportunity presents itself.
 
Notable exclusion in responses: Best powder in world is VihtaVuori and Lapua bullets are probably the best made, however try various types and use what works best, as that is what handloading is all about. Almost forgot, Lapua brass is the best and used by the hundreds of thousand yearly in Canada.
 
Rem 700 SPS Tactical 20 in barrel , 308
168 gr Hornady HPBT with 44.4 grains of Varget , and win large rifle primer s , works well in my rifle , no problems hitting the gong out to 710 yards .
I ran out of elevation on my scope when shooting at 1022 yards but still got a few hits on the gong , I have added a 20 moa rail since then.
 
I've had great luck with Sierra 168 with Varget and Winchester primers. I've loaded Hornady 165 BTSP with IMR4064 for a deer load for a friend. That shot great in his Ruger MKII.
 
BTW, the Sierra 168 was developed as a short range (300 meter) bullet. It has a short boattail. For long range shooting, Sierra changed the 168 boattail to a longer version, similar to their 190 Matchking. The result was the 175 Matchking.

So, you have a choice of a long or short boattail. If you ever have aspirations of shooting at longer distances, buy the 175. That is why I suggested it and not the Sierra 168.

You asked about ball powder. Yes, it can be used. It meters perfectly and is well suite to cranking out large quantities on a Dillon. I made about 500,000 rounds will ball powder for that reason. However, for the very best ammo, you want to match the ammo to the rifle with a powder combination that works in the spring, summer and fall. That is why I use either Varget or N140 or N150.

When the above posters say "use any brass" they mean use any make of brass, but they assume you will have bought 500 or so of the same lot #. Sorting range pick up brass by headstamp won't work for much more than good plinking ammo.

I use Winchester and Lapua, and much prefer the Lapua. I sort the Winchester by weight and debur the flash holes.
 
I will second what others have said here and in other threads - The most common bullets and powder will give really good loads - 168 or 175 SMK (175 for long range)...use 4064 between 41-43 gr, or between 42-45 gr Varget. If your gun doesn't shoot these, there is an issue.
I too have had great success with Lapua bullets/brass, and VV powder - problem is getting VV powder to Manitoba, or buying here from retailers close by, is almost twice the price of Hodg or IMR powder.
 
Although we sell VV, the most accurate combo I ever had in .308 Win was 46 grains of IMR 4064 with original lot of Sierra 155 Palma. Rifle would shoot anything: Wichita action with Maddco barrel and McMillan prone stock.
 
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