308 Win. Long Range Bullet Selection in Canada

What 308 Win. bullet that is available in Canada, to use at long range?

  • Berger

    Votes: 22 21.4%

  • Sierra

    Votes: 34 33.0%

  • Speer

    Votes: 2 1.9%

  • Hornady

    Votes: 19 18.4%

  • Nosler

    Votes: 2 1.9%

  • Lapua

    Votes: 14 13.6%

  • Other

    Votes: 2 1.9%

  • I have no idea!

    Votes: 8 7.8%
  • Total voters
    103
ElmerFudd

ElmerFudd

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OK, I am trying to figure out what bullet or bullets to start with testing in my new Remington 700 Stainless Special 5R Milspec. For those that don't know it has a 24" barrel with a 11.25" twist (slightly faster than the 12" standard).

I hope to be doing some long range shooting in the new year perhaps with the BCRA out to about 600m. As such I think I want something in the 165 to 175 gr. range.

The December '08 Handloader Journal had an excellent article by Gary Sciuchetti "Developing an Accurate .308 Load". But it was written for a 12" twist barrel and of course lists common bullets available in the USA.

I will likely be using Varget as suggested on CGN many times and in the article. Although over the winter I will likely try H335 or IMR 4064 that I have on hand just to get started.

So the question is: What bullet, that is commonly available in Canada, would you recommend? And where to buy? Of course price is important so if it is twice the price and only gains me .1" over 500 yard it likely isn't for me. :rolleyes:

And while I have your attention, what cheap bullets do you like for short range plinking in 308? Something I can have fun with and take a friend to the range to try without breaking the bank as much.

Just to make it fun I made this a poll of what I think is available locally in Canada and was in the short list in the Handloader Journal.

Your suggestions are greatly appreciated!!


Fudd
 
All of the bullets listed in your poll are avalible in canada...

Yes 150grs for plinking and 168grs match for long range accuracy... berger lapua and hornady make exellent 168grs match bullets
 
Try some Sierra, 2200C, Match in 168 grain HPBT. If you like them, buy them in the 500 pack and they will be about the same price as cheaper bullets, but far more consistant.

Remember, practice with the bullets you intend to use, then there aren't any surprises when the shots count.

bearhunter
 
I've had good luck with MK's, Nosler J-4's, and Hornady Int'l Match, (I haven't tried the A-Max) but I keep going back to the MK's that are available in a greater range of .30 caliber weights, and my very best bragging groups have always been with MK's. I haven't used Lapua bullets all that often, but when I have the results have been outstanding. While I haven't shot Bergers, they have a fine reputation for accuracy, and a pal of mine swears by their .224's. Being able to get personal email assistance from Walt Berger is a nice touch, and a good marketing strategy.

Wildcat Bullets in Wetaskiwin AB was working on a long range bullet with an aluminum nose cone. The shape of this bullet pushed the BC to a degree I have never seen on a .30 caliber bullet before, but the length would of required a fast twist barrel. The trouble is I don't know if this slug was ever perfected and marketed. I guess I'll have to touch base with him and find out.

Using extruded powders with a mid range burning rate means that you don't need a particularly hot primer, while a magnum primer might produce more uniform velocities with H-335.
 
If you are going to be shooting matches Lapua or Berger are your first choice. 155's or the 185
as an aside both Berger and Sierra have come out with new bullets Berger 155.5 and the un-named Sierra that are getting very hi praise
For general shooting
the Sierra work just fine. 168 - 175

I shoot 155 lapua at the moment and they work great in my 11.25 twist rifle starting to test the 185. Lapua are easier to get at the moment but Berger is making a hard push to become more available.
 
168 gr bullets are garbage out past 900 yards. They were designed for 300m ISU shooting back in the 60's.
155's are the max bullet weight for my game of TR. I have used all of the above for long range with the exception of Speer bullets. 155 Berger's and Lapua's use about 2 moa less elevation at long range than SMK's and Nosler's. I tried Hornady A-Max's when they first came out and didn't like them.
Varget seems to be the cleanest burning powder I have found.
 
I use the Sieira 180 gr match king in my CZ 750 with excellent results. Reloader 15 for powder CCI primer and WIN cases. The 180 holds it's velocity better out at longer ranges.
 
mysticplayer (member here) has Bergers, and AMAX's. I know, because I have ordered some (they are waiting to be paid for).

mystic is great to deal with.

LeRoy
 
I think taht with a 11.25 twist you should try 175 gr. Sierra match king... with about 43 gr of Varget... With that your bullet should get out at about 2600fps.. and according to Brad Sauvé.. you should seat it at .018 off the land.

I worte him an E-mail to Sierra and for my 30-06 they recommended the same recipe ..cause my tikka is 1:11 but is actually a bit more than that by my measure...
 
Welcome to BCRA! As you accurately pointed out, we don't really have any ranges in BC that go beyond 600 metres. At that range, frankly, any decent match bullet from 155 grains and up will work, assuming you and the rifle are up to the task.

The vast majority of us use 155s at Vokes, and they work well out to 600 and beyond. (TR rules also require us to use 155s.) However, others swear by 168s and 175s. Just remember that the 168 is not really designed for performance beyond 600 (at .308 velocities, anyway).

Your 1-11 twist will work very well with bullets from 155 through 180 grains. I have an identical twist on one of my rifles, and it is very versatile.

There really is no best brand of bullet for this purpose. As with anything else, you have to use what works best in your rifle. I settled on the Nosler 155s myself because they shoot very well, and they're cheap. I used these bullets at the World Championships in Ottawa in '07.

Lapua, Berger, Hornady, Sierra and Nosler all have their followings, though Sierra has the biggest number of fans, by far. One of the reasons for the popularity of the Sierra is that it is designed to work in a wide variety of throat configurations, with different degrees of jump. VLD bullets like the Lapua, in contrast, DO fly flatter at longer ranges, but the down side is that they have a reputation about being VERY sensitive to seating depth, and they tend to like being seated right out into contact with the lands. Hornady AMAXs are claimed to be somewhere in between the Sierra and Lapua in this regard, and Noslers tend to be very forgiving about seating depth.

You should just buy boxes of a few bullets that you want to try, and develop loads for them. Most people use Varget powder, but some swear by Reloder 15 or Vihtavuori N140 and N540. As for primers, Federal 210M (if you can get them) are excellent, as are CCI BR2 (which seem to be more readily avaialbe). My advice is just settle on one of these two, buy a few thousand, and don't think of it again for a while.

Trial and error is the only way to figure this stuff out. It takes work, but it is worth it in the end.

Good shooting!
 
Another vote for sierra 175's.
BCRA's Tactical matches, I'd venture a guess that the 175 is the most common round, with the 168's being a close second. Try them both, they'll likely both shoot well through a 5R.
 
Many Lapua GB491 shooters win matches with the ogive from .015" into lands to .040" off the lands(Marion and Praslick111-using factory ammo) You get the same ballistic coeficient as the Sierra 175 MK, but it goes faster= better ballistics.

Regards,

Peter
 
I'll be trying various charges, seating depths, etc in a comparison between Sierra Palma Match 155's and the Hornady A-Max 155's. We'll see how it goes...
 
Your help people has been great... so far. :p

I knew Sierra was popular but at the same time I thought more people would be using the Speers. At the moment and for starting out I really don't want to deal with a Lapua bullet that is sensitive to seating depth just to fly a bit flatter. So I will skip that one for now.

And the Bergers, according to the WS catalogue are about 75% more expensive ($55/100 vs. $31/100 for Noslers) and the VLDs are more depth sensitive so I think I will put them off till later too.

So I will pick up / order some Sierra, Nosler and Hornady. Weights to be determined...

Now out to 600m will the 168 or 175 gr. really be that much better than the 155 gr.? Is the extra weight to fight the wind really worth the lose in velocity? :confused: Or is it just more stable?

Looking in the Russell's catalogue I see Hornady 150gr. FMJBT for $5 less per 100 than their 168 gr. HPBT. What's the accuracy range of a 150 gr. FMJ BT? 5 more grains really make that much of a difference or is it the hollow point on the 155 gr. that makes it so much better at range? I know the hollow point does make it better but then I see some using the Hornady A MAX. :confused:

Thanks again for the help guys,


Fudd
 
I found this on sniper central, seems to talk about what you are interested in knowing

"I'll chime in a little on this topic.

The 155 SMK is actually a good long range bullet when compared to the 168gr. The BC's are nearly identical (.443 vs .447) but you get better velocity with the 155gr's. So, at longer ranges, both drop and winddrift will be less than the 168gr loads. Now, if we are comparing federal GMM ammo, we'll have to be careful, because the 155's do not achieve the advertised 2900fps because those are from a 29" palma barrel. From my 23" barrel, I was getting close to 2800fps, so we'll compare the 155 at 2750fps and the 168gr at 2600fps. and look at the extremes.

bullet......drift 10mph 1000y......drop 1000y
155gr............103".........................423"
168gr............110".........................477"
175gr..............93".........................437"

I threw the 175gr in there also, at 2600fps. The numbers show some interesting info, and if you can throw that 155gr even faster, the results would be better. Notice even at 2750 it drops less than even the 175gr though the wind bucking is better with the 175gr. The 155gr is a good bullet, the lapua scenar even better, though they do arrive with less energy than the 175's.

Just thought I would confuse everyone more and put up some numbers!

MEL"

So while having less impact energy, it would seem they are travelling faster then the 168's and 175's to offset wind drift and bullet drop.

Basically I think it comes down to buying 100 and testing them. As each rifle is different, your rifle may or may not shoot one particular brand of bullet better.

ps - as a general rule, i find FMJ BT's to shoot less accurate then HP BT's. For paper punching I think you would be well to pick up a box of 150, 155 and 168 grain bullets and test them. I think the preformance difference between the three will be minimal unless you are getting into 600-1000 range competitions. Then you will definatly want to test a whole variety of bullets and powders to squeeze every last MOA you can.
 
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