.308 win question

Matteralus

Matteralus

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So… I have a selection of bullets … from 150 gr to 208gr… 4064 works for 150 then doesn’t “work” for 160-180.. then works again for 190-208.. that’s what my hornady 10th edition says anyways. But I look online at some other tables and I see 4064 should work for damn near everything?
I have 165/180 BTSP hornady as well as 180sbt Sierras… am I safe to use 4064 in these or not..
 
My reloading notes from late 1970's / early 1980's says IMR 4064 was what I used in 308 Win with 165 grain Speer bullets - both flat base and boat tail - also with Sierra boat tail 165 grain. Then I discovered RL-15 and we still use that load with 165 Speer HotCor bullets - in the same Win. Model 70 rifle. I just looked in Speer #14 manual - IMR 4064 is listed for all their bullet weights that you asked about? - for sure up to 180 grain. Because your Hornady #10 manual does not list it, does not mean it will not "work" - just means they either did not test it with those bullets, or they are not reporting the results that they got??? Pretty much my advice would be - "work up" to a loading, and always check more than one data source. As has been posted elsewhere on CGN by others - Hornady did not likely have your rifle, brass or primers to test for the loadings that they published, so is up to you to do that.
 
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That’s kind of what I figured. I have read several sources that says 4064 should work for all , I just wanted an opinion from someone on here to compare with. I have 3031,benchmark and 4064 for my .308 so I should be able to use 3031 for under 150 and 4064 for over.
 
Matteralus said:
So… I have a selection of bullets … from 150 gr to 208gr… 4064 works for 150 then doesn’t “work” for 160-180.. then works again for 190-208.. that’s what my hornady 10th edition says anyways. But I look online at some other tables and I see 4064 should work for damn near everything?
I have 165/180 BTSP hornady as well as 180sbt Sierras… am I safe to use 4064 in these or not..
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4064 will work on all that. Not every load manual will show every suitable powder in every cartridge.
 
Also what I was thinking, I was kind of frustrated when I went to start some charging today only to find out I had to do more research ��
 
OP - is likely about what you want to accomplish - holes in a target or dead deer? Is likely two different needs and up to you to find the "best" combo for you and your rifle. I mostly shot at deer - never competed about targets - a kill zone on a whitetail is like 12" diameter - does not really matter in that circle where the bullet passes - result is a dead deer. Top, side or bottom - all is about the same - dead deer. Target shooters tend to fuss over where the bullet lands on target - hunters tend to be concerned about what the bullet does after it hit where you aimed for - or within 2 or three inches of that aiming point. Is different "games" - different "needs". In our experience, being able to off hand shoot and hit at least 3 out of 5 x 4" diameter clay pigeons on a bank at about 100 yards, is kind of important as a "hunter" - does not mean much as a bench rest "target shooter".
 
Currently it’s just for banging gongs and paper.. My 6.5x55 we discussed a few days ago is my hunting rifle so ultimately I’m just loading bullets I acquired in a package deal when I got my reload package from a guy to use up.
 
PO Ackly lists 41-43 grains of 4064 as safe loads with LR primers, under 180 grain bullets. He lists velocities from 2360-2505fps and safe in several different rifles.

The 1967 Hornady Manual, first edition, lists 39.0 grains 4064 at 2300fps to start and 43.2 at 2600fps Maximum load, under 165 grain bullets.

Lyman 1970 45th edition lists a starting load at 40.0 grains and a max load of 45.5 grains as a max load = 2400-2700+fps out of a 26in bbl.

There is quite a difference between these loads because powder consistency burn rates could vary quite a bit between lots of powder and test barrels

One thing to keep in mind is that IMR3031 is slightly faster than IMR4064. Any starting load listed for for IMR3031 and likely even the max load will be safe with the bullet weights and IMR4064 the OP is looking to use.

Hope this helps
 
All this is very helpful thank you very much. I appreciate it, I was rather crabby as I had thought 4064 was gonna be good for everything, but my manual said 4895. I was at cabelas earlier and they had it in stock but opted not to get any and with shortages I figured it would have been gone before I made it back..
 
You didn't make a bad choice.

4064 is a very useful powder in small to medium size cases. I've even used it in 45/70 cases with heavier bullets of 400 grains or more.

Don't fret about it.

There just isn't one powder available now or ever that was good for everything.

4064 is a good choice IMHO. Every bit as useful for your purposes as 4895

Manuals only have so much room to print the information given to the printers or those that put the tables together from the Labs. They try to include the best of the bunch tested in the tables and don't mention other results with other powders, even though they may be very good.
 
Matteralus said:
All this is very helpful thank you very much. I appreciate it, I was rather crabby as I had thought 4064 was gonna be good for everything, but my manual said 4895. I was at cabelas earlier and they had it in stock but opted not to get any and with shortages I figured it would have been gone before I made it back..
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If I recall the spec sheets correctly, 4064 and 4895 are the same dough, extruded into small (4895) and larger (4064) kernels. The 4064 is bulkier, which means it fills a 308 and 3006 case better, but does not meter as well in a thrower.
 
For whatever this is worth , 4064 is my powder of choice for the 175 SMK . In fact , this is exactly the powder that the US military uses for the 7.62mm sniper round ( Mark 316 Mod 0 ) and is what Federal uses for it's Gold Medal Match round . That should tell you something . Works great for the 168 SMK load as well . .308 is a VERY forgiving round and there are a LOT of powders that work extremely well . For me , it's 4895 for the 168 SMK , 4064 for 175 SMK and N150 for the 185 Berger Juggs .
 
fwiw- its off topic. but i use one powder for most also, that happens to be varget, i also load 06 with varget up to 180grains, i lose some speed i hear but dont tell the deers
 
Ganderite said:
If I recall the spec sheets correctly, 4064 and 4895 are the same dough, extruded into small (4895) and larger (4064) kernels. The 4064 is bulkier, which means it fills a 308 and 3006 case better, but does not meter as well in a thrower.
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This is very interesting. I've always preferred to have the powder pour up to the case neck, with very little or no space between seated boolit and powder.......old school I guess
 
Bassmaster said:
This is very interesting. I've always preferred to have the powder pour up to the case neck, with very little or no space between seated boolit and powder.......old school I guess
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that most likely stems from early magazine writers an powder manufacturers ploy to sell more powder :D :D

side note, is this 4064 stuff really similiar to "Varget"? - sounds like a similiar description from the larger kernels ? as i think this 4895 stuff is AR2209 im familiar with, which is, small kernel.
 
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