308 with 167 scenars

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Bryan Carvalho

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Hey nutz,
My custom build has finally been finished (well....shootable) and now I'm going to be working up some loads. Ive got about 3 boxes of 167 scenars lying around that I was thinking of trying. Most of my shooting is done from 100-500 however this up coming season I might start competing at 600, 800, and 1000. I was just wondering if anyone is using these and how you like them. They seem very consistent. Also, do you find they like ajump or jam on average? If it matters im running a 700 with a lilja 24" barrel in 12 twist with an obermyer chamber. Thanks for any info.
 
Lapuas are some of the highest quality match bullets out there.

The 167 Scenar is not typically chosen for 600-1000 yard competitions (any of the modern 155 match bullets will outperform it). They'll certainly get to 1000 yards and be reasonably accurate, so for "fun shooting" at 600-1000 they'd be find but if you are at all interested in getting good results I'd suggest a better bullet for the task (load up your 167s at magazine length and shoot them at 100-500 yards to your hearts content).

With your rifle you could use one of the modern 155 grain match bullet, or you could use a Berger 185 BT.

I recommend that you do *NOT* use the 155 Lapua in your rifle; it is a poor choice to use in an Obermayer (or other short-leade chamber) that you have (and so do I). It is a very good, very high quality bullet, but it can be quite a fussy bullet to get to shoot accurately and it is also quite unsuited to short throats).

The best 155 bullet I can suggest you try is the Berger 155.5 Fullbore. Load it "somewhat" off the rifling (30 thou is as good as anything), and load it up to full pressure (I use 45.5 H4895 in a Lapua case, Obermayer chamber, .030" jump which is IIRC about 2.950" COAL).

If B155.5s aren't an option for you I would suggest you use old-Sierra 155s (Sierra part #2155). This the the original 155 target bullet and nowadays is one of the very lowest performance (wind drift) 155 bullets out there, but it still works well and and a relatively unfussy bullet. They can still be used to win matches. Load them to magazine length (2.800"), which gives about .015" jump in an Obermayer chamber. Use standard target loadings (e.g. 46.0 or 46.5 Varget, depending on your powder lot and case volume; or 45.0-45.5 H4895).

Another good bullet to try is the new Sierra 155 (part #2156). It is a high performance bullet, in the same league as the B155.5 and the Lapua 155. My personal (and very limited) experience is that they first load I tried was only mediocre (3/4MOA-1MOA @ 100y) and to be honest I have not had the time to bother with load development on it (my B155.5s simply spoil me!). Many of the American shooters use them and they win matches with them. The winner of this year's Canadian Championships shot #2155 Sierras from 300m-600y and #2156s at long range 800m & 900m. The second place shooter used B155.5s. I think third place used B155.5s and I also think fourth place used Lapua-155s (but his chamber is longer that yours and mine).
 
May not be relevant, but I have recently switched to 167 Lapua Scenar for my M1A.

Find they work very well. I was using 168 SMK's before.
The 167's are a smidge longer, the hollow point is slightly larger, and with Lapua they are more consistent manufacture than the SMK's.

Our range is only 300 but I have noticed more consistancy.
 
Thanks guys, that was agood little read rnbra-shooter. By 2156, are those the 155 palma bullet? I believe I have 2 unopened boxes at home. I also have a few boxes of the new hornady 178bthp coming to me and can readily get many at very good prices. Wondering if anyone had tried them. As for the berger 185, ive had trouble finding them. I do however have the orange box hunting 185's available, do you think it would be worth it to try them? Would they be simillar to the yellow box ones? I know if I got the yellow now ones I would at least have to tweak my load but would it be like starting from scratch all over again? Thanks again.
 
#2156 is the Palma bullet. Before it came out the #2155 was the Palma bullet. Check the part number on the box to know for sure which one you are dealing with.

B185 hunting bullets are (I think) the VLD design. Very high performance bullet, capable of very good accuracy, but Berger VLDs can be "fussy" (i.e. they might take a fair bit of tuning and tweaking to get the superb accuracy they are capable of). The orange box Bergers are the same as the old yellow box Berger target bullets. They have thin jackets. Sometimes thin-jacket bullets can come apart, so some of Berger's target bullets (yellow boxes) use a slightly thicker jacket than the otherwise-identical orange box hunting bullet.

It's been a while since I've bought bullets but I think that Bergers are available from Jerry/Mystic Precision?
 
If you are going to try heavier bullets, look at the Hornady 178gr AMAX...........I use this bullet to great success out to 600 meters..........I found it more consistent then the Sierra 175gr Matchkings I was using........
 
It is the 2156 that I have. I've also noticed that if I load them to mag length I'm still a ways from my lands and groves. Has anyone used these and knows if they're picky for that? Maybe I'll start with these seeing as I have 200 already.
 
If you want to get closer to the lands and have it mag feed try the older sierra 155's (2155) I have a 95 palma chamber and shot these 5 thou into the lands (they liked being jammed in my gun) and there is plenty of room when feeding from a mag. With the 2156's I had to jump them 20 thou to get them to feed. I should have some berger 155.5 soon but I am expecting I won't get them to feed unless they shoot accurately with a jump.
Edit* I also couldn't get the 2156's to shoot as good at higher velocitys compared to the 2155 bullets
 
The best accuracy and most consistant results I've had is from the LAPUA'S by quite a margin. The 167's have given me the tightest bench group(just better than the 155's) but not by much. I think the 155's MAY be better beyond the 700 yd mark but I'd like to try it first just to be sure. I have a Gaillard barrel and the best groups are had with the bullets (155's & 167's) seated to 2.830" OAL. That's .040"+ off the lands. This is fortunate as this feeds well from my mag in a Rem700. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post the loads, even though they're not hot, so I'll PM them to you.
 
big boar - are you saying that you got good groups from Lapua 155s? Since you have a Gaillard barrel you obviously don't have a factory Remington chamber, would you know what chamber is in your gun?

The Lapua 167 is, relatively speaking, a very modest performance (dragwise) bullet. The payoff to this though is that such bullets tend to be very easy to get to shoot very accurately. So it is more or less expected that you would be getting better accuracy with the 167s than with the 155s.

It is interesting to read about your experience of good results with Lapua 155/167s but not with hot loads.

FWIW I had a load for Lapua 155s that:
- was quite mild (it was actually pretty much a starting load). IIRC about 2750fps from a 30" barrel (vs. 2950-3000fps for "ordinary full power 155 from a 30 inch barrel")
- had very inconsistent muzzle velocities (ES of 70fps or so?)
- used a lot of jump, in fact it was completely insensitive to the jump varying from 10 thou off the rifling to 150 thou off the rifling (loading mistake; I tested it, and it worked!!(
- was fiendishly accurate at short and mid range (300y-600y). As in, good enough to shoot 50-10V at 300m (10 shots into a 0.9 MOA V-bull), and good enough to win a 300y-500y-600y national F-Class match
- it shot really cruddily at 900m, as one would expect (2.5+ MOA vertical)

My initial experience (several years worth in fact) with Lapua 155s was that I simply could not get them to shoot accurately at ordinary "full" speeds. I think it was about seven years after I started using them that I finally found a full-power load that worked well (they certainly do exist).
 
RNBRA & BryanC, the chamber is a standard 308, nothing special. With the 155 Lapua seated into the lands it goes to 2.880"+ and I seat both the 155&167 to 2.830". I'm not really a bench shooter(or anything else for that matter) but I'll give you what I've found with the Lapua's. The 155's give consistant 5 shot groups under .80" with 4 going into .50" or less and the 5th leaking out to .60-.80" almost all the time. .50" +-.1" are not uncommon. The best I've done from a sit(on the ground with a sling) is 5 into .90" @100yds. Prone with sling @200yds I've done 4 into 1.50" with the fifth going to 3.00" followed by 5 into 2.4" also @200yds. I just started to work up a load with the 167's but the last 2 groups(benched) were 5 into .45" and 5 into under .40" (100yds). Sorry I haven't had a chance to test at longer range but the initial test is quite good.
 
@big boar, it seems like the throat in your chamber is roughly 50 thou longer than an Obermayer.

BTW those are nice results accuracy-wise, especially with the 167s. (dunno if it is a matter of you shooting them better, or if you are seeing that the 167s are much easier to get a really accurate load for).
 
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