308Win choices
- Thread starter B.Ruddick
- Start date
Ignition of ball powder is more difficult. Good ignition takes more than a flame. It takes pressure, too. A light bullet has les inertia, so it pops out of the case neck sooner than a heavy bullet.
So with a heavy bullet you get more pressure, which helps ignition.
If you want to test this out, try loading some 100 gr bullets in a 308 with a standard primer like CCI (not Winchester) and a ball powder. You may get some missfires, or no shots, or some click-bangs.
Winchester ammo used to be loaded with Olin ball powders, so the standard Winchester primer was made hotter than others, to work well with ball powder.
You may be using standard primers and having no problems. What you can't see is how close you are to having a problem. You don't want 105% ignition, waiting for the day it is only 95%. You want 200%, so there is never a problem.
If you have to use a standard primer, crimp the case mouth. That really helps.
QUOTE : If you want to test this out, try loading some 100 gr bullets in a 308 with a standard primer like CCI (not Winchester) and a ball powder. You may get some missfires, or no shots, or some click-bangs.
REALLY ! WELL I have loaded and shot 100's of Sierra 110 gr-ers over top of H335 sparked by CCI200 's and NEVER had a Blink of trouble and in 4 different rifles too ! Just LUCKY i Guess Eh RJ
REALLY ! WELL I have loaded and shot 100's of Sierra 110 gr-ers over top of H335 sparked by CCI200 's and NEVER had a Blink of trouble and in 4 different rifles too ! Just LUCKY i Guess Eh RJ
I’m enjoying and appreciating the stories, and knowledge being shared, thank you.
Yes, these days things on the store shelves are getting a bit harder to source, hoping that turns around come spring time.
The reasons I have chosen the 150 grain projectiles, one, that is what happens to be in the cupboard, and two, that is what I have been using with factory ammo in the this rifle, Ruger American all weather compact 18” barrel, one of my favourite rifles.
Factory ammo that usually gets used in this rifle was mainly Federal Fusion for the hunts, and either the old grey box or blue box Federal ammo for sighting in or rechecking zero from time to time.
The factory ammo produces a fairly consistent velocity of 2735-40 fps with the shorter barrel, hoping to try and to keep it roughly the same, but not going to be upset at all if it increases slightly.
Best regards
Yes, these days things on the store shelves are getting a bit harder to source, hoping that turns around come spring time.
The reasons I have chosen the 150 grain projectiles, one, that is what happens to be in the cupboard, and two, that is what I have been using with factory ammo in the this rifle, Ruger American all weather compact 18” barrel, one of my favourite rifles.
Factory ammo that usually gets used in this rifle was mainly Federal Fusion for the hunts, and either the old grey box or blue box Federal ammo for sighting in or rechecking zero from time to time.
The factory ammo produces a fairly consistent velocity of 2735-40 fps with the shorter barrel, hoping to try and to keep it roughly the same, but not going to be upset at all if it increases slightly.
Best regards
Thanks Ganderite, I’ve tried using 760 before in a few different loads, different calibers, not 308. But never appreciated the loads worked up using it, ended up using IMR4350 in those loads.
This was the reason I was asking about the use of magnum primers for ignition of the ball powder, but the pressure aspect would definitely make some sense indeed.
Much like when we’re blowing up rock in the pits, depending upon the rock structure that was drilled, solid rock or broken rock, will require different amounts of certain charges to get to the desired rubble we need for building the logging roads.
Big rocks not always good, smaller better, but at same token, we don’t want it to move very far, as we need to keep it in place to use.
Basically boils down to the velocity of the ignition to create the pressure.
These are generally my biggest reloads (not really a reload haha), 3” diameter by 30’ deep, a bunch of WR, a few sausages, one cut open with a 1”x 16” stick with a det in the last one.
No I’m not a blaster, just sometimes helping the blaster fill holes, he gets the fun part of connecting all the dets to the ignition cords, and then he lights the five minute delayed fuses, we get the heck out of there, hide somewhere safe and wait for the BOOM.
Yes all signals have been used prior and after.
We could throw a small amount of explosives in a fire and not much will happen just burns away, they really do require velocity to create the pressure to ignite the powder. I’m seeing a bit of a correlation, mind you it’s definitely a bit different than a 308. LOL
Thanks
This was the reason I was asking about the use of magnum primers for ignition of the ball powder, but the pressure aspect would definitely make some sense indeed.
Much like when we’re blowing up rock in the pits, depending upon the rock structure that was drilled, solid rock or broken rock, will require different amounts of certain charges to get to the desired rubble we need for building the logging roads.
Big rocks not always good, smaller better, but at same token, we don’t want it to move very far, as we need to keep it in place to use.
Basically boils down to the velocity of the ignition to create the pressure.
These are generally my biggest reloads (not really a reload haha), 3” diameter by 30’ deep, a bunch of WR, a few sausages, one cut open with a 1”x 16” stick with a det in the last one.
No I’m not a blaster, just sometimes helping the blaster fill holes, he gets the fun part of connecting all the dets to the ignition cords, and then he lights the five minute delayed fuses, we get the heck out of there, hide somewhere safe and wait for the BOOM.
Yes all signals have been used prior and after.
We could throw a small amount of explosives in a fire and not much will happen just burns away, they really do require velocity to create the pressure to ignite the powder. I’m seeing a bit of a correlation, mind you it’s definitely a bit different than a 308. LOL
Thanks
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Luck helps. So does a nice tight neck. When you are jogging along with 105% ignition, there is no sign of a problem... until there is. Obviously you are not hunting trophy big game or shooting important matches with that ammo.
In some applications you want a guarantee that ammo will work. That is why Winchester makes their standard primer hot and why the loading manuals often specify magnum primers for ball powder loads.
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I ALWAYS use Magnum Primers with Ball Sperical powders when there is large quantities of it be used such 60 Grs Plus ! BUT i have NEVER had a problem with CCI200 Or CCIBR2 or F210-F210M primers with H335 - H380- H414 -WW748 or any other of the mid range burn Rate powders used Cartridges from 25-50 grains mostly !
** YOU Said Quote : You may get some missfires, or no shots, or some click-bangs. That's NOTHING to do with how HOT or LONG a primer is burning - Sorry But YOUR a bit mixed up in your statement there !
Magnum primers which have a Hotter - Longer burn time are needed to get LARGE quanities of ANY Slow burning powders and ESPECIALLY Ball - Spherical ones ! RJ
** YOU Said Quote : You may get some missfires, or no shots, or some click-bangs. That's NOTHING to do with how HOT or LONG a primer is burning - Sorry But YOUR a bit mixed up in your statement there !
Magnum primers which have a Hotter - Longer burn time are needed to get LARGE quanities of ANY Slow burning powders and ESPECIALLY Ball - Spherical ones ! RJ
My most recent ball powder problem was 223, 55 FMJ, 24 gr H335, S&B Stnd primers. 10% misfires. I had already loaded 1000 rounds (Dillon) and did not want to pull them, so I bought a Lee Factory crimp die and gave them a solid crimp. That gave me 99% ignition.
My comments here are all based on my experience and observations.
All Good ! Mine too ! Cheers Jim
I have had good success with W748 and Fed 210 (near full charge) with 150gr bullets. Also RL15 but have had to work around the load range as each of my rifles seemed to be particular with this powder (my experience anyway) though it has always eventually shot well! I love IMR 4895 for 165/68gr bullets.
Its fairly well documented and discussed on the inter####, and most guys I know buy 2-6 8lb jugs of Varget at a time to avoid the lot to lot variations. I spoke with a fella at IMR years ago about some powder jugs I picked up that smelled like tiger balm and shot like crap. The fella informed me that when they mix a large batch of powder, they use graphite and other materials to achieve the desired burn rate which is consistent with what I was experiencing. Therefore some lots of powder may be physically different and produce different results and are to be kept seperate, not mixed as per their disclaimer. Personally I mix different lots when I get low on a jug but I make sure they are tumbled well. I have got upwards of 80ft/sec velocity difference between lots of Varget.
I had a lot of IMR4064 once that was part spherical, and part stick similar to what you get when you pull apart FGMM ammo. Or atleast that is my experience.
That may be my next attempt, just tried eight loads of Varget yesterday.
Started at 44 and worked up to 47, did this as a pressure test, end result was 2705fps.
All cases/primers showed zero pressure signs, all worked well.
Would like to see the velocity up a little bit more.
Played with my 32WS also, did six rounds of 748, and six of 3031.
748 started at 35.1 went to 36.3, final velocity was 2001fps
3031 started at 31 went to 33, final velocity was 2129fps
I found using the 748 that the rifle sounded louder and kicked a bit more on the shoulder, very interesting, just something I noticed, and so did the other fellow at the range.
Might try the Varget on the 32WS.
Started at 44 and worked up to 47, did this as a pressure test, end result was 2705fps.
All cases/primers showed zero pressure signs, all worked well.
Would like to see the velocity up a little bit more.
Played with my 32WS also, did six rounds of 748, and six of 3031.
748 started at 35.1 went to 36.3, final velocity was 2001fps
3031 started at 31 went to 33, final velocity was 2129fps
I found using the 748 that the rifle sounded louder and kicked a bit more on the shoulder, very interesting, just something I noticed, and so did the other fellow at the range.
Might try the Varget on the 32WS.
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