Think 300 RUM which can use the ultra patriotic .311 bullets that the 303 British used. You know, the cartridge God designed for the good men of the Commonwealth. - dan
311 Imperial Canadian Magnum
- Thread starter MiG25
- Start date
From my limited knowledge. FWIW
The original ICM's were built by Kimber of Oregon prior to their filing Chapter 11, the Sako rifles were to be offered as an afordable alternative.
A friend shot a Sako .311 ICM until it was stolen a few years back. An accurate shooting iron to be sure,
I had the opertunity to fire a Kimber Super America 360 ICM(.358 caliber, I don't believe 9.3mm or .375 was offered/produced? in the line) serial #NASS 0001 some years ago at a local Turkey Shoot. I wish I had purchased the piece. One of the One's that got away.
Tsavo
The original ICM's were built by Kimber of Oregon prior to their filing Chapter 11, the Sako rifles were to be offered as an afordable alternative.
A friend shot a Sako .311 ICM until it was stolen a few years back. An accurate shooting iron to be sure,
I had the opertunity to fire a Kimber Super America 360 ICM(.358 caliber, I don't believe 9.3mm or .375 was offered/produced? in the line) serial #NASS 0001 some years ago at a local Turkey Shoot. I wish I had purchased the piece. One of the One's that got away.
Tsavo
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I was under the impression that the Imperial Magnums were patented and Remington bought the rights........Just here say, don't know this as fact. I developed the 30-404 Imp before either one of the other 2 even looked at it..........still have the original reamer made by JGS.
Yup, and there was the Abe Express which was pretty much the same thing done in the 60's if memory serves. Not much new under the sun really. - dan
Yep, and Bevan King was building a 35-404 Imp at the same time. 250 gr spitzers at waaaay over 3100 fps. I talked with Aubrey White about it during a phone call, and he was quite surprised, as he thought his 360 was all alone.
I owned one on that Bevan built on a P14, so knew that for certain. Oehler 33s don't lie.
Sold it to a mutual friend of myself and c-fbmi Doug. IIRC, Doug was there when our friend dropped a running grizzly like it was a groundhog! He still has it.
My apology for the brief sidetrack.
Ted
I owned one on that Bevan built on a P14, so knew that for certain. Oehler 33s don't lie.
Sold it to a mutual friend of myself and c-fbmi Doug. IIRC, Doug was there when our friend dropped a running grizzly like it was a groundhog! He still has it.
My apology for the brief sidetrack.
Ted
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Sorry for not getting back to you folks sooner.
The following are some photos of the one and only Kimber rifle ever produced in an Imperial Magnum calibre. If anyone wants a detailed history of the Imperial Magnums please contact me by email at rifle@telus.net. Sako produced one production run of 85 rifles for us in the following Imperial Magnum calibres 7mm, .300, .311, .338 and .360(.358) Regards; Aubrey
The following are some photos of the one and only Kimber rifle ever produced in an Imperial Magnum calibre. If anyone wants a detailed history of the Imperial Magnums please contact me by email at rifle@telus.net. Sako produced one production run of 85 rifles for us in the following Imperial Magnum calibres 7mm, .300, .311, .338 and .360(.358) Regards; Aubrey
Gorgeous. Thx Aubrey. - dan
Thought some of you might be interested in the following;
The History of Imperial Magnum Cartridges
by Aubrey G. White, January, 2003
The genesis of the modem commercial beltless magnums is the story of the Imperial Magnum cartridge development.
In 1989 Gus Rios, President of Royal Canadian Cartridge & Munitions Inc. (RCCM) of North Vancouver, B.C., purchased the "Imperial" and related Trademarks from Valcartier Industries Ltd. (IVI). These Trademarks had been purchased by IVI from the original Trademark holders, Canadian Industries Ltd. (CIL). CIL had been producing ammunition continuously in Canada since about 1919.
RCCM intended to reintroduce a full line of Imperial brand ammunition to the International market place. To attract attention to the Imperial trademark they wished to develop a new, high performance, magnum rifle cartridge. RIOS had developed a cartridge he called the "Imperial .311 Canadian Magnum". This cartridge was the belted .338 Winchester case necked down to .311 calibre but did not provide the attention getting performance he was looking for. Aubrey White of Osoyoos, B.C. suggested that RCCM develop a full line of magnum cartridges, from 7mm to .358, all based on the non-belted .404 Jeffery case. It was anticipated that full length cartridges based on this case would be capable of out performing all existing belted magnums in their class. A .404 beltless case also provided additional benefits in that it allowed the maximum powder capacity possible in standard magnum rifle actions, ensured more accurate head spacing and improved feeding through rifle magazines. A non-beltled case is also less costly to produce than one with a belt.
Even though White suggested other common calibers be given priority, Rios wanted the .311 calibre for a unique Canadian identity. White's company, North American Shooting Systems (NASS) designed and formed the cases, assembled some ammunition and a rifle for the .311. The first test firing occurred on October 31st, 1989. By the next day, November 1st, load development resulted in record results. 180 gr. Sierra .311 bullets were consistently chronographed at 3,435 fps within acceptable pressure limits, faster than any other in history. That performance was achieved with hand formed RWS .404 Jeffery cases, 89.0 grains of RL22 powder and #215 Federal primers in a 26" MacLennan barrel. It is still one of the very best loads for the .311
In 1990 NASS was licensed exclusively by RCCM to use the Imperial trademark to produce rifles. The cartridges were named "Imperial Magnum". RCCM was to produce cartridge cases and eventually load ammunition. Kimber of Oregon built one prototype rifle for NASS chambered for the .360 Imperial. Serial number of this rifle is NASS-OOO1. NASS intended to further contract Kimber to manufacture production rifles chambered for all the Imperial Magnums. Before production could begin, Kimber went into receivership. NASS continued cartridge development but marketing plans went on hold until 1991.
To gauge dealer interest, RCCM publicly displayed the .311 magnum cartridges and a rifle for the first time in January of 1991 at the Dallas TX "Shot Show". Enthusiastic dealer response convinced RCCM to formally announce its intention to produce a full line of Imperial Magnum rifles and cartridges. Negotiations between RCCM and Aubrey White resulted in NASS developing the 7mm, .300, .311, .338 and .360 Imperial Magnum cartridges. RCCM and Aubrey White formed an RCCM subsidiary company call the "Imperial Magnum Corporation" (IMC). IMC was licensed to use the Imperial trademark to market Imperial Magnum cartridge cases and rifles. In 1993 Sako of Finland was subcontracted to produce barreled actions, which were fitted with McMillan or Pacific Research stocks by IMC. Sako manufactured one prototype and one production run of 85 Imperial Magnum barreled actions.
The following are the Sako production figures of Imperial Magnum rifles; 7mm Imperial Magnum Serial No's IM 000001 to IM 000025, .300 Imperial Magnum Serial No's IM 100001 to IM 100015, .311 Imperial Magnum Serial No's IM 200001 to IM 200012, .338 Imperial Magnum Serial No's IM 300001 to IM 300013, .360 Imperial Magnum Serial No's IM 400001 to IM 400020 and one.360 Imperial Magnum Serial No. IM 000000 (Prototype)
"Cavim" of Venezuela manufactured the cartridge cases using USA brass cups from Olin. IMC never produced loaded ammunition. Customers loaded their own using IMC cases, RCBS loading dies and loading data developed and supplied by IMC. IMC began marketing rifles and cartridge cases in 1993. Unfortunately a combination of subcontractor problems with the cartridge cases and financial difficulties experienced by a major shareholder forced IMC to cease operations in 1995. Customers were very pleased with both cartridge performance and rifles. Some complaints were received concerning soft brass cartridge cases but no rifle was ever returned for any reason.
Many "Wildcat" cartridges have been hand formed from .404 brass over the years but the Imperial Magnums were the first with commercial cartridge cases and rifles. The large capacity beltless design has been an overwhelming commercial success but unfortunately not for the originators. Winchester and Remington have introduced at least eight new beltless magnums since IMC stopped production. Dakota Arms cartridges use only the beltless design and John Lazzeroni used the concept to develop his full line of rifles and cartridges. A total of thirty new non-belted magnum cartridges have been introduced to the market place. Only Weatherby continues to develop new cartridges with the outdated belted case.
Aubrey G. White, Box 306, Osoyoos, B.C. VOH 1VO
Cell; 250-498-9222
E-mail; rifle@telus.net
The History of Imperial Magnum Cartridges
by Aubrey G. White, January, 2003
The genesis of the modem commercial beltless magnums is the story of the Imperial Magnum cartridge development.
In 1989 Gus Rios, President of Royal Canadian Cartridge & Munitions Inc. (RCCM) of North Vancouver, B.C., purchased the "Imperial" and related Trademarks from Valcartier Industries Ltd. (IVI). These Trademarks had been purchased by IVI from the original Trademark holders, Canadian Industries Ltd. (CIL). CIL had been producing ammunition continuously in Canada since about 1919.
RCCM intended to reintroduce a full line of Imperial brand ammunition to the International market place. To attract attention to the Imperial trademark they wished to develop a new, high performance, magnum rifle cartridge. RIOS had developed a cartridge he called the "Imperial .311 Canadian Magnum". This cartridge was the belted .338 Winchester case necked down to .311 calibre but did not provide the attention getting performance he was looking for. Aubrey White of Osoyoos, B.C. suggested that RCCM develop a full line of magnum cartridges, from 7mm to .358, all based on the non-belted .404 Jeffery case. It was anticipated that full length cartridges based on this case would be capable of out performing all existing belted magnums in their class. A .404 beltless case also provided additional benefits in that it allowed the maximum powder capacity possible in standard magnum rifle actions, ensured more accurate head spacing and improved feeding through rifle magazines. A non-beltled case is also less costly to produce than one with a belt.
Even though White suggested other common calibers be given priority, Rios wanted the .311 calibre for a unique Canadian identity. White's company, North American Shooting Systems (NASS) designed and formed the cases, assembled some ammunition and a rifle for the .311. The first test firing occurred on October 31st, 1989. By the next day, November 1st, load development resulted in record results. 180 gr. Sierra .311 bullets were consistently chronographed at 3,435 fps within acceptable pressure limits, faster than any other in history. That performance was achieved with hand formed RWS .404 Jeffery cases, 89.0 grains of RL22 powder and #215 Federal primers in a 26" MacLennan barrel. It is still one of the very best loads for the .311
In 1990 NASS was licensed exclusively by RCCM to use the Imperial trademark to produce rifles. The cartridges were named "Imperial Magnum". RCCM was to produce cartridge cases and eventually load ammunition. Kimber of Oregon built one prototype rifle for NASS chambered for the .360 Imperial. Serial number of this rifle is NASS-OOO1. NASS intended to further contract Kimber to manufacture production rifles chambered for all the Imperial Magnums. Before production could begin, Kimber went into receivership. NASS continued cartridge development but marketing plans went on hold until 1991.
To gauge dealer interest, RCCM publicly displayed the .311 magnum cartridges and a rifle for the first time in January of 1991 at the Dallas TX "Shot Show". Enthusiastic dealer response convinced RCCM to formally announce its intention to produce a full line of Imperial Magnum rifles and cartridges. Negotiations between RCCM and Aubrey White resulted in NASS developing the 7mm, .300, .311, .338 and .360 Imperial Magnum cartridges. RCCM and Aubrey White formed an RCCM subsidiary company call the "Imperial Magnum Corporation" (IMC). IMC was licensed to use the Imperial trademark to market Imperial Magnum cartridge cases and rifles. In 1993 Sako of Finland was subcontracted to produce barreled actions, which were fitted with McMillan or Pacific Research stocks by IMC. Sako manufactured one prototype and one production run of 85 Imperial Magnum barreled actions.
The following are the Sako production figures of Imperial Magnum rifles; 7mm Imperial Magnum Serial No's IM 000001 to IM 000025, .300 Imperial Magnum Serial No's IM 100001 to IM 100015, .311 Imperial Magnum Serial No's IM 200001 to IM 200012, .338 Imperial Magnum Serial No's IM 300001 to IM 300013, .360 Imperial Magnum Serial No's IM 400001 to IM 400020 and one.360 Imperial Magnum Serial No. IM 000000 (Prototype)
"Cavim" of Venezuela manufactured the cartridge cases using USA brass cups from Olin. IMC never produced loaded ammunition. Customers loaded their own using IMC cases, RCBS loading dies and loading data developed and supplied by IMC. IMC began marketing rifles and cartridge cases in 1993. Unfortunately a combination of subcontractor problems with the cartridge cases and financial difficulties experienced by a major shareholder forced IMC to cease operations in 1995. Customers were very pleased with both cartridge performance and rifles. Some complaints were received concerning soft brass cartridge cases but no rifle was ever returned for any reason.
Many "Wildcat" cartridges have been hand formed from .404 brass over the years but the Imperial Magnums were the first with commercial cartridge cases and rifles. The large capacity beltless design has been an overwhelming commercial success but unfortunately not for the originators. Winchester and Remington have introduced at least eight new beltless magnums since IMC stopped production. Dakota Arms cartridges use only the beltless design and John Lazzeroni used the concept to develop his full line of rifles and cartridges. A total of thirty new non-belted magnum cartridges have been introduced to the market place. Only Weatherby continues to develop new cartridges with the outdated belted case.
Aubrey G. White, Box 306, Osoyoos, B.C. VOH 1VO
Cell; 250-498-9222
E-mail; rifle@telus.net
Guess I should have hung on to that 338. Damn. - dan
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
I thought Newton Rifles were the first manufacturers of .404 based cartridges made on a commercial basis; but either way, NASS and the Imperial Magnums are an interesting chapter in Canadian firearm history. I tend to agree that the idea of a .311 overbore chambered rifle is a bad idea without appropriate bullets being available. I suppose once you've gone that far though, you could invest in bullet swaging dies and presses from Corbin.
Yep, and Bevan King was building a 35-404 Imp at the same time. 250 gr spitzers at waaaay over 3100 fps. I talked with Aubrey White about it during a phone call, and he was quite surprised, as he thought his 360 was all alone.
I owned one on that Bevan built on a P14, so knew that for certain. Oehler 33s don't lie.
Sold it to a mutual friend of myself and c-fbmi Doug. IIRC, Doug was there when our friend dropped a running grizzly like it was a groundhog! He still has it.
My apology for the brief sidetrack.
Ted
This rifle, cartridge and buddy were the inspiration for my development of the 30-404 Imp. In fact, I used to get my buddy to fireform my cases in his rifle before I necked them down, with home made dies, to 30 cal.
I was sitting at the bench when we chronographed 250 Speer Spitzers @ 3300 fps from the 26" tube on that rifle. He settled on a load that drove 250s a touch over 3200 fps and would shoot 1 ragged hole for five shots @ 100 mtrs. The Speer bullet was NOT the answer for that case though, as we found out later on a stone sheep. This was before Barnes homogenous bullets, or even 35 cal Nosler Parts..........we found a partial box of 250 gn Swift A-Frames at a gunshop in Edm one time (38 bullets as I recall) and he used these sparingly for hunting after that. It was an A-Frame he swatted that bear with.......A-Frames were right up there with unicorns and Leprechauns in Canada in them days and the find was a treasure beyond gold.........so was the price as I recall.
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
Very interesting. What was the rifling twist rate of that barrel? Definitely a project with a lot of promise.
I believe Bevan's button was a 1-14 in 35 cal...........not 100% sure, but 95%...............I have never built anything in 35 cal with one of Bevan's barrels.............I can tell you Johnn, the recoil at 3300 fps was getting into the retina detaching, filling loosening level, it was brutal!!!!!!!!
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
Seeing as I've just recently had surgery on both eyes to correct a cataract issue,
perhaps I should stay away from the likes of that. Still, it does sound like an interesting project and looking forward to any future update posts.Hi Boomer; Charles Newton was a prolific cartridge designer of many large capacity calibers however he never used the .404 Jeffery as his parent case for any of his commercial calibers. The parent cases for the commercial .30 & .35 Newtons were based on a slightly smaller diameter case similar to the 8x68S Mauser. The .404 Jeffery case, because of its large size, cannot be used to form the Newton cases. That being said I would not be surprised if he did use the .404 case in some of his early wildcats.
Regards; Aubrey
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Hi c-fbmi; Welcome to my world. During the early 1990's I spent days, weeks & months at the local range constantly developing loading data with various bullets weights, powders, primers etc. for the many calibers I was developing. The calibers were the five Imperial Magnums from 7mm to .360 and the Canadian Magnums from 7mm to .458. All calibers based on the .404J case. This produced starting and maximum loads in all ten calibers for our customers. By the end of the development process recoil was not my friend. The .458 Canadian with a 500 grain bullet had recoil in a class all by itself. It was very hard work and I'm glad its behind me.
Regards; Aubrey
