32-40 win

[safehunter]

I'm trying to help a friend load for a Marin Model 1893, Black Powder version in 32-40 Win. It holds great sentimental value for my friend so he would like to be extra cautious.

We have brass from the LGS and 170 grain bullets from the bullet barn. Now we are just trying to settle on powder and primer.

I appreciate any help figuring out the last pieces to this puzzle. I'd hate to be responsible for damaging a heirloom.

Primers:
Large Pistol or large rifle?
hodgdon lists large pistol - as does Chuckhawks fwiw. However my friend was told large rifle. Does it really matter? TBH I've never reloaded pistol. Are they interchangeable for low pressure loads?

Powder:
Replicating black powder loads I've found nothing in my manual (Lyman 48th). I have h4895, benchmark and h322 and was hoping to use those, although at this point I'm not opposed to getting a pound of powder specific for this project. Perhaps maybe we should be looking at black powder.

On Hodgdon site they have:

Hodgdon H4227 .324" 2.555" 13.0 1,367 18,000 CUP
Hodgdon H110 .324" 2.555" 12.0 1,376 19,200 CUP
Hodgdon Lil'Gun .324" 2.555" 9.3 1,237 19,600 CUP

I've found a couple posts at CGN and around the www siting stuff like:
12 grains of imr4227 - thx SHELL SHUCKER - nice post.
13 to 14 grains of H4227
16.0 grains of H4895 powder. maximum load is 22.0 grains of H4895 - excites me because I have h4895

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From the Ideal Loading Manual, for cast bullets:
165 gr bullet- max load 13.2 grs SR4759= 1427'ps
170 gr Bullet- max load 16.0 grs SR4759= 1685'ps
185 gr Bullet- max load 13.0 grs SR4759= 1350'ps
185 gr Bullet- max load 11.0 grs 2400 = 1250'ps

Jacketed bullets:
165 gr Bullet- max load 21.5 IMR 4198= 1870'ps
165 gr Bullet- max load 28.0 IMR 3031= 1955'ps

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170 Hornady F.P. Alliant RL-11 18.7 1,520
Remarks: primer: Fed. 210; excellent target load for rifles with weak actions

170 Hornady F.P. IMR IMR-4198 20.0 1,718
Remarks: primer: Rem. 9 1/2; accurate medium load

170 Hornady F.P. Alliant RL-7 25.0 1,740
Remarks: primer: CCI 200; OK for Winchester; do NOT use in weak actions!

170 Hornady F.P. IMR IMR-3031 28.0 1,925
Remarks: primer: Rem. 9 1/2; maximum; do NOT exceed; use ONLY in strong rifles

170 Hornady F.P. IMR IMR-4895 29.0 1,886
Remarks: primer: Rem. 9 1/2; fine hunting load for strong action rifles only

170 Speer F.N. IMR IMR-4895 28.5 1,830
Remarks: primer: Fed. 210; most accurate hunting load in 1894 Winchester

170 Speer F.N. IMR IMR-4064 26.0 1,590
Remarks: primer: Fed. 210; most accurate load with this powder

170 Speer F.N. IMR IMR-4064 27.5 1,710
Remarks: primer: Fed. 210; fair hunting load for strong action rifles only

181 Lyman 321297 IMR IMR-4227 13.0 1,240
Remarks: primer: Rem. 9 1/2; light but accurate target load

181 Lyman 321297 IMR IMR-4227 15.0 1,410
Remarks: primer: Rem. 9 1/2; one of the best target loads with cast bullets

181 Lyman 321297 IMR IMR-4198 18.0 1,550
Remarks: primer: Rem. 9 1/2; excellent all-purpose load for old rifles

182 Lyman 321232 IMR IMR-4198 15.0 1,320
Remarks: primer: Rem 9 1/2; good target load for old rifles

182 Lyman 321232 IMR IMR-4895 24.0 1,460
Remarks: primer: Rem. 9 1/2; good all-around load with plain-base cast bullets

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200 SAECO flatnose breech seated Accurate XMP-5744 11.0 1,043
Remarks: gun: Douglas, 24-inch barrel

200 SAECO flatnose breech seated Accurate XMP-5744 12.5 1,138
Remarks: gun: Douglas, 24-inch barrel

200 SAECO flatnose breech seated Accurate XMP-5744 14.0 1,243
Remarks: gun: Douglas, 24-inch barrel

200 SAECO flatnose breech seated Accurate XMP-5744 15.5 1,345
Remarks: gun: Douglas, 24-inch barrel

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[jethunter]

Load Data: All data you find listed that is a from a "trusted" source should be fine for your old rifle, IF the rifle is in good operating condition. These loads are well within SAAMI peak pressure ratings for this cartridge that have been set with old rifles like yours in mind.

Contrary to popular but poorly informed belief - you can safely duplicate most black powder CARTRIDGE ballistics using smokeless powders, The difference is that there is a lot more room to screw up using smokeless powder. If you're reasonably competent and check what you're doing you won't have issues. The same goes for ALL reloading with smokeless powders not just old BP cartridges, so really this is nothing new for most people who have reloaded anything for modern cartridge firearms.

Primer = Large Rifle. Large pistol probably work OK given the low pressure but there's no need. Pistol primers are softer, so unless your firing mechanism is very weak, use the rifle primers because they will be hotter and better suited to igniting rifle powders than pistol primers, at least in theory.

Powder: Using a 170 gr cast bullet, and winchester 32-40 brass I experimented with the following powders in a 26" bbl Winchester M1894. None of them is a "hot load" or at max. They are roughly the same velocity/pressure as factory ammo or a bit lower, and that's what you need to regulate load wwith the sights. They are safe loads in a good condition rifle. Same data will work fine with jacketed bullets of the same weight.

IMR4895 = 26 gr = 1550 fps (lyman 47 edition manual shows max load at 30 gr)
IMR4064 = 25 gr = 1500 fps (lyman 47 shows max load at 29 gr)
IMR4198 = 20 gr = 1550 fps (lyman 47 shows max load as 22 gr)

IMR4198 was the best of these and seems well suited to the 32-40 cartridge.

 

[fingers284]

Very good post by Jet, particularly the second paragraph on loading the old ones with smokeless.

As an added precaution I would like to add...I have read & talked to experienced "modern gun" re-loaders who are very competent at the new stuff but when they start loading for the "old stuff", a lot of them make the same mistake...they start looking for the same pressure signs that warn them of impending problems that they are, by habit, used to looking for in the new stuff (hard to eject cases, primer deformation, etc.). The fact is, the first sign of pressure that will be evident in the old ones, is a catastrophic failure of gun metal.

The safe way to regulate pressures for the old ones, unless you have a "Pressure barrel setup" is to religiously stick with the original factory loading velocity published when the guns/ammo were new.

This includes bullet size to bullet size. An increase of 100 gr in bullet weight isn't a "huge change" with BP because powder charge has to be automatically reduced because of case space reduction, but with smokeless, case space isn't a regulating factor and it (bullet size) can be a definite "game changer" An example of this I use, is my original "early #" 86 Win. in 45-70. The cartridge Winchester marketed at that time for the gun was an "Express cartridge" with a 300-330 grn bullet at 1450-1500 fps. I regularly shoot 400-450 gr bullets in the gun with SR 4759 smokeless but at never more than 1300 fps. Would the gun be safe at 1500 fps with 450 gr bullets & smokeless...probably... but "probably"isn't in my vocabulary when smokeless & old calibers/old steel are in the same conversation.

I use a Chrony extensively when converting old cartridges from the BP era to smokeless but just a very good reading of old literature, both catalogues & manuals, will serve most well, and an understanding that dangerous pressures can be attained with no notice given by the ammo.

 

[safehunter]

I'm copypasta'ing a great pm I received. I'd like all the info on 32-40 in one spot, plus it'll help others who search for this cartridge in the future. I'll leave it anonymous but if the owner wishes to take credit for helping and passing on their knowledge, that would be great.

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You'll have no worries with any cast boolit load in the '93 Marlin that don't exceed 20,000 PSI as far as for accuracy. Best target accuracy with the
.32-40 is with 200 gr. Pope style boolits going at around 1150 fps.

The Marlin should shoot just fine with most all powders you listed for the 170 gr. Bullet Barn slug, provided that you use the Reduced Load Calculator on the Handloads.com site to get the velocity to 1200 fps. I always use a pinch of kapok filler to hold the powder in place for consistent results.

For hunting loads in that old rifle, it's no worry to go to 1500 fps. using powders such as SR4759 or Accurate 5744. These, along with IMR 4227 are the powders of choice for this fine old cartridge.

 

[mooncoon]

If you are shooting a small charge of a fast powder, put a small pinch of drier lint on top of the powder to hold the powder against the primer and get a consistent ignition and burn rate. 200 grain Pope may be a bit long for most 32-40s. I shoot a 210 grain home made bullet in one of my guns but it also has a new faster twist barrel to accommodate the longer heavier bullet

cheers mooncoon