.32 RF: Powder Compression

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NorthCoastBigBore

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All right, I've spent the last two days going through "all" the threads on building .32 RF rounds with the .27 Hilitis & round balls. I'm about to jump in and try this. I say "all" cause someone is gonna tell me I missed the Holy Grail here.

I have one simple question that I haven't seen the answer to:


1) If I do the .32 Short Colt trick and load with Holy Black, HOW do you compress the powder, given that the ball has to be seated first (for good reason)?


I've been loading BP cartridges now for several years, muzzeloading for 25+ years. And the Golden Rule has always been "no air space". I use a drop tube and am real careful to ensure my cartridges are compressed (using cardboard wads, etc etc)...and I'm having a real hard time seeing how the heck you can compress the BP in these cases, then insert a Hilti...and be certain of this.

But there is a LOT of threads on this, and lots of folks are having lots of luck, with no damage...so I am missing something. Any suggestions/direction are/is appreciated :)



Also (Ok a second question), I understand that a Green or Brown ramset - with the factory Hilti charge and without any additional powder- is safe in a .32 Rf revolver?



This latter option could be a quick alternative (but I personally enjoy the smell and flash of BP)...just want to confirm that, there's a few folks who indicate it works for them...but not clear whether those folks are firing the Hiltis straight (with factory powder charge) in a little "Suicide Special" or not.

(I'm not holding anyone to anything here, I'll be continuing to research, including the good old fashioned paper library I have, and ultimately I will weigh the risks & benefits here & accept responsibility completely!)

Thanks kindly, any input is appreciated...


NCBB
 
Never used BP but I rec 2.7 grains of Unique which is less than the small Hilti charge. I find that the Hilti charge is a bit too hot but it still works OK.
 
Thank you - those are the factory charges, I take it.

To clarify, some of the posts seem to suggest some folks are adding BP to the Hilti factory charge; but I would think it's actually either/or (at least that's how I'd be looking at it for a revolver): either they are popping the Hilti open & using it strictly as a primer, with BP charge; or they are shooting the Hilti, factory charge, with no additional powder.

As someone in a previous post noted (I think it was Dingus) these little revolvers have pretty thin walls, so just firming up my understanding of the situation, hopefully without repeating too much info :) The Stevens rifles etc are more forgiving I'm sure.

I'm still real curious as to whether/how that BP is being compressed; that is one fine point that I haven't seen an answer to in any of the previous threads, or on
h ttp://32rimfire.########.ca/ - lots of references to loading with it, nothing (I can see) on the mechanics of it.

Or am I just missing the obvious, and the small case volume makes BP compression a moot point, so long as the case is full?
 
I think the gap is so little as to be not worth worrying about. I use the Hilti caps as they come plus black powder. Usually use green because I am not sure just how hot the red ones are. I also don't like the idea of cutting or opening the Hilti caps; if they are anything like 22 shells, the priming extends well up the casing and is not just in the rim

the issue of cylinder strength is going to vary considerably because there are quite a few different makes and models of guns chambering in rimfire calibers and considerable variation in wall thickness

cheers mooncoon
 
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For what it is worth, this is how I open them, nice and controlled. I simply sharpened a primer punch pin on one of my dies - works slick. I built a little anvil that clips onto the ram on my press - but a small bolt in the central hole of the ram would work too. I recover the powder, then use a smaller amount than the yellows for a charge. I find the lower powered cartridges hard to find.

OpeningHiltiLR.jpg


Here they are opened:

Hiltiopened.jpg


This is what the tool looks like - hard to get simpler than this...

Openhilticrop.jpg


It works for me.
Cheers,
Scott

32 RF pistols for sale:
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=742820
 
mooncoon said:
I think the gap is so little as to be not worth worrying about. I use the Hilti caps as they come plus black powder. Usually use green because I am not sure just how hot the red ones are. I also don't like the idea of cutting or opening the Hilti caps; if they are anything like 22 shells, the priming extends well up the casing and is not just in the rim

the issue of cylinder strength is going to vary considerably because there are quite a few different makes and models of guns chambering in rimfire calibers and considerable variation in wall thickness

cheers mooncoon
Click to expand...

Thank you, I think that clears up my questions.

Yes, I've been reading a lot on these little revolvers and can see the variations out there - so I appreciate this is not a "one size fits all" answer.
 
scairns said:
For what it is worth, this is how I open them, nice and controlled. I simply sharpened a primer punch pin on one of my dies - works slick. I built a little anvil that clips onto the ram on my press - but a small bolt in the central hole of the ram would work too. I recover the powder, then use a smaller amount than the yellows for a charge. I find the lower powered cartridges hard to find.

[This is what the tool looks like - hard to get simpler than this...


It works for me.
Cheers,
Scott

32 RF pistols for sale:
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=742820
Click to expand...

Hey that is really slick - thanks for sharing. I still have to dredge up some brass but have a feeling I'll have some ths weekend. These little rimfires are fascinating!

Thanks again Scairns, when I do get it "running" I'll post some photos.



And thanks to everyone for the information, I think my questions are answered!
 
the brown ones are not available anymore in .27 cal. so best to open them up and use BP only in small revolver. In rifle the more powerful green will be safe with original loading. Well id still open them up. Even for a rifle...
 
NorthCoastBigBore said:
Sounds good, thanks for the input. Definitely not a lot of meat in these cylinder walls.

These little revolvers are fascinating, I've been reading about them for years, never took them seriously. Finally getting one is whole new world.
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What gun did you buy out of curiosity, im addicted to .32RF's have been since I started collecting.

Always have liked small compact pistols and revolvers.
 
Tyockell18 said:
What gun did you buy out of curiosity, im addicted to .32RF's have been since I started collecting.

Always have liked small compact pistols and revolvers.
Click to expand...

A little Hood Firearms Union Jack. I've also been interested in these little guns for years. I read about the Hood Firearms Co. many years ago and for whatever reason, stayed interested in that particular company & wanted to collect some of their pieces. One of the "trademarks" of that company was a smooth bored barrel with false rifling within an inch of the muzzle to fool potential buyers. Interesting enough, my Union Jack is actually rifled so that makes me scratch my head a little.

Cheap little guns at the time, low quality compared to the Colts & Remingtons, but interesting in the innovations and the sheer volume of production. The designer/founder (who actually wasn't even on the executive) was involved in numerous gun companies in that Massachets/Connecticut area from the Civil War through the 1880s and seems to show up in the oddest places...

I have a copy of that "Suicide Specials" book coming too, should be a good read. Hopefully there is more meat in there than I've found elsewhere.
 
NorthCoastBigBore said:
A little Hood Firearms Union Jack. I've also been interested in these little guns for years. I read about the Hood Firearms Co. many years ago and for whatever reason, stayed interested in that particular company & wanted to collect some of their pieces. One of the "trademarks" of that company was a smooth bored barrel with false rifling within an inch of the muzzle to fool potential buyers. Interesting enough, my Union Jack is actually rifled so that makes me scratch my head a little.

Cheap little guns at the time, low quality compared to the Colts & Remingtons, but interesting in the innovations and the sheer volume of production. The designer/founder (who actually wasn't even on the executive) was involved in numerous gun companies in that Massachets/Connecticut area from the Civil War through the 1880s and seems to show up in the oddest places...

I have a copy of that "Suicide Specials" book coming too, should be a good read. Hopefully there is more meat in there than I've found elsewhere.
Click to expand...

Nice choice, very cool little spur triggers. Let me know if there is some fairly substantial information available in that book eh.

I'v been looking for more info myself, its hard to come by.

I also just picked up a nice H&A no.3 XL in the EE, should make a nice addition to my collection as well. Haven't seen one that minty in over a year, looks like factory new, quite amazing really.
 
Sure will, the book is enroute but for some reason the shipper estimates ETA in July. Not sure why so long, I would have chipped in for quicker had I realized that!

These spur trigger revolvers are (to me) an interesting chapter in firearms history; they get dismissed as junk but the fact they sold so well means something! Their very existence had a substantial impact on the development of the firearms industry in Connecticut. I found more information by researching the people involved and even the area, rather than the gun. That in turn led me back to info about the gunmmakers.

Is that H&A that beautiful one in a case? I did notice a couple in the EE that sure caught my eye.

The gun designer from Hood was also connected to H&A; actually one or more of the major shareholders in H&A was reportedly President of Hood (Charles A. Converse, for example).
 
NorthCoastBigBore said:
Sure will, the book is enroute but for some reason the shipper estimates ETA in July. Not sure why so long, I would have chipped in for quicker had I realized that!

These spur trigger revolvers are (to me) an interesting chapter in firearms history; they get dismissed as junk but the fact they sold so well means something! Their very existence had a substantial impact on the development of the firearms industry in Connecticut. I found more information by researching the people involved and even the area, rather than the gun. That in turn led me back to info about the gunmmakers.

Is that H&A that beautiful one in a case? I did notice a couple in the EE that sure caught my eye.

The gun designer from Hood was also connected to H&A; actually one or more of the major shareholders in H&A was reportedly President of Hood (Charles A. Converse, for example).
Click to expand...

Yeah, all I ever see on forums is people saying that these old pocket pistols were garbage, unsafe ect. If you find one functioning properly, they are good to go in my opinion provided you keep the pressures mild.

I'v never had any issues with mine.

I also didnt know he was involved with H&A, interesting tidbit of info, I love hopkins and allen firearms, they are my next favorite inline to forehand & wadsworth.

And yes that nice cased No. 3 XL is the one I bought, damn thing looks like factory new, very hard to find these days.
 
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