.320 bulldog vs. .32 short colt

[vikingo]

Good morning! I have an old Belgian Bulldog revolver in .320 centerfire cal. All the research l have done has unfortunately been insufficient to quell my concerns about the compatibility of .32 Colt in the .320 Bulldog.

From what l have been able to learn, short colt is identical to .320 bulldog with a slightly smaller rim. I have seen some vids on youtube wherein a .320 Velodog or Bulldog is loaded and fired with the Colt round without any problems.

My concerns are as follows...

Colt made the cartridge from the late 1800s to about 1992, articles say unchanged. so have the pressures remained the same for the more modern cartridges?

I have a sample Colt cartridge which drops right into the chamber, but with a slight rattle. Would that little bit of play cause the case to split?

Are the pressure differences in a cartridge this small enough to be dangerous? Some people say a mouse fart is more powerful... I'd rather not build a bomb, not even a small one.

Thanks fro whatever input you can provide. If you have any websites or articles you think might be helpful (pressure comparisons etc...) please put a link in your response.

thank you very much!

 

[freemanriveradventures]

First of all, is it stamped .320 anywhere on it or are you relying on some other information for the caliber?

 

[machinistbutler]

I think I have seen a pic of a belgian bulldog in 7.5 swiss, which is about a 32 caliber .

 

[vikingo]

Well, my research (such as it was) has yielded very limited results. I keep landing on the same sites, no matter how I phrase the questions. .320 revolver, .320 bulldog, and .320 Webley seem to be identical. The .32 short, or long Colt were based on the european original. The differences in dimensions appear to be solely in the rim.
My revolver has no markings indicating caliber, but it does have proof, and makers marks that clearly make it european. So, not S&W or Colt .32.
I base my assumptions on the info in the seller's ad, (.320 C.F.) and what I have managed to glean from my admittedly inexperienced searches on the net.
Again, my worries are about the small amount of play in the chamber, and the pressures produced in more modern ammo.
It's not a perfect match, but I'm thinking in a low power caliber like this... I might get away with shooting .32 Colt without blowing off any fingers.
I'm fairly confident my experiment will work. I'm hoping someone on this board has tried it; or at least can tell me whether a 20% difference in power between Euro and Yankee rounds will damage the gun or the shooter.
8mm being it's closest Euro cousin, is a rifle round. So, I didn't explore that one any further... Perhaps that was a mistake.

 

[Thenoobgunsmith]

All the .320s i have seen have been stamped .320 and On all .320s ive seen factory .32 short rounds fit and are basically the same dimensions both having a heeled bullet. .320 bulldog is approximately a 80 grain bullet at 550-650 and some typical .32 short colt factory offerings state a 80 grain bullet at 700 -750. Measure the barrel, forcing cone, and end of chambers. The barrel should be around .312. The rattle could mean its some other 32 caliber. The .32 short loading has been the same for 100 years i would expect pressure to be within the safe range.

 

[Snider shooter]

Same cartridge but by a different name. The 32 short and long Colt don’t produce much pressure. I normally just load them with black powder or Bullseye and a 90 gr bullet.

 

[cooey43]

Good morning! I have an old Belgian Bulldog revolver in .320 centerfire cal. All the research l have done has unfortunately been insufficient to quell my concerns about the compatibility of .32 Colt in the .320 Bulldog.

From what l have been able to learn, short colt is identical to .320 bulldog with a slightly smaller rim. I have seen some vids on youtube wherein a .320 Velodog or Bulldog is loaded and fired with the Colt round without any problems.

My concerns are as follows...

Colt made the cartridge from the late 1800s to about 1992, articles say unchanged. so have the pressures remained the same for the more modern cartridges?

I have a sample Colt cartridge which drops right into the chamber, but with a slight rattle. Would that little bit of play cause the case to split?

Are the pressure differences in a cartridge this small enough to be dangerous? Some people say a mouse fart is more powerful... I'd rather not build a bomb, not even a small one.

Thanks fro whatever input you can provide. If you have any websites or articles you think might be helpful (pressure comparisons etc...) please put a link in your response.

thank you very much!

For years I had a Webley Model "Webley Pocket" Revolver. It had "WP" on grips. It was chambered in .320 REVOLVER,
which started in England in 1870. Webley guns are also from England. I regularly shot .32 SHORT COLT ammo. in it for
years. Manny 100's of rounds , with no issues.

 

[cyclone]

Same cartridge but by a different name. The 32 short and long Colt don’t produce much pressure. I normally just load them with black powder or Bullseye and a 90 gr bullet.

My go-to explanation is that the .320 Revolver's projectile diameter is .317, whereas .32 "Short Colt" has a projectile with a diameter of .313.


Will it make any noticeable difference regarding accuracy? Probably not, especially given the firearms the cartridges are typically chambered-for.


But they are indeed different cartridges.

 

[Pinfire]

Revolvers are outside my area of expertise, but it sounds strange to me that it would have proofs and maker's marks, but no calibre markings. Europeans did have creative ways to mark bore sizes, perhaps the markings are there but not ones you recognize, or were expecting? A photo of the markings might prompt a revolver expert to chime in.

 

[Snider shooter]

My go-to explanation is that the .320 Revolver's projectile diameter is .317, whereas .32 "Short Colt" has a projectile with a diameter of .313.


Will it make any noticeable difference regarding accuracy? Probably not, especially given the firearms the cartridges are typically chambered-for.


But they are indeed different cartridges.

The difference in bullet diameter in situations like this is why I reload and also have 116 bullet moulds. I would slug the barrel and see what diameter of bullet you actually need. Sometimes it is not what specifications say. One of my Stevens Favourites has a bore diameter of 0.301supposed to be 0.317.

 

[freemanriveradventures]

If it's not stamped .320 it's a prohib not antique. As for the pressure differences between .320 and 32 short colt.... 32 short colt is perfectly safe to fire from a good condition revolver chambered in .320. If you find that a 32 short colt is a bit loose in the cylinder you may want to try dropping a 32S&W short in. 32s&w is a bit larger than the 32 colt. If the 32S&W fit you know it is chambered in 32s&w. Belgium gun makers made plenty of revolvers for export to the US in both 32 colt and 32 s&w chamberings. Just because it was manufactured in Belgium does not automatically mean it is .320 caliber.

 

[appleorangefish]

If it's not stamped .320 it's a prohib not antique.

That's my understanding too, that the firearms techs will err on the side of caution and assume if it is .320 diameter it will be 32 colt and not 320 revolver.

Though one way you could "prove" it is 320 revolver would be if your revolver does not chamber the thicker rim 32 colt, without thinning the rims.
But that would require finding a very tightly toleranced gun, and a lot of those older belgian revolvers have enough end-shake they can chamber both .320 and 32 colt even if they were originally intended for the 320.

 

[cooey43]

That's my understanding too, that the firearms techs will err on the side of caution and assume if it is .320 diameter it will be 32 colt and not 320 revolver.

Though one way you could "prove" it is 320 revolver would be if your revolver does not chamber the thicker rim 32 colt, without thinning the rims.
But that would require finding a very tightly toleranced gun, and a lot of those older belgian revolvers have enough end-shake they can chamber both .320 and 32 colt even if they were originally intended for the 320.

I have TWO # 3 S & W single action revolvers, both made befoe 1898. They are cal. .32-44 .When I bought them,
the RCMP tried to make them 12(6) because of the .32 Cal. The NFA provided me with documentation including
dimentions that showed my .32-44 Cal. was different than all other .32's. The RCMP then made them Antique Class.
Thanks to NFA. They also helped me in another case, when none of the other Orgs. could help me.

 

[Milspectacles]

Lots on info in this thread so far, thought I'd tie a bit of it together here

First off,

Revolvers are outside my area of expertise, but it sounds strange to me that it would have proofs and maker's marks, but no calibre markings. Europeans did have creative ways to mark bore sizes, perhaps the markings are there but not ones you recognize, or were expecting? A photo of the markings might prompt a revolver expert to chime in.

One would make this assumption for sure, however loads of these little Bulldog revolvers and S&W knock-offs were made in Liege and many have no caliber markings whatsoever, often not even a maker's mark.

Here is an example of a Belgian .32 revolver that J F & Co. (Janssen Fils & Co. possibly?) were proud enough of to stamp a maker's mark on, as well as the caliber mark "32"

Alternatively, here is a different Revolver of the same style and time-frame with no external maker or caliber markings

I do believe that one was intended to chamber .320, however as it was not marked the CFC considered it to be a .32 Short Colt, much as what was stated:

If it's not stamped .320 it's a prohib not antique.

However, there are also guns that can be clearly marked .320 and still be prohibited, here is my Webley Pocket model in .320 which was produced sometime between 1901-1919:

 

[vagrantviking]

I think I have seen a pic of a belgian bulldog in 7.5 swiss, which is about a 32 caliber .

I've heard of this as well as Belgian guns in 8mm French Ordinance and many other cartridges both military and civilian.
Don't automatically rule out the possibility that revolvers in the ball park of 32cal are other chamberings that are permitted to be antiques. Finding the evidence to convince the relevant authorities is the tricky part though.