.338 Federal or .358 Winchester?
- Thread starter Slooshark1
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- Colorado Springs, CO
I would get the 338 Federal, bullet selection is greater, and it is just about equal to the 358 Win, plus, it isn't a Winchester caliber, gives it a +100 in my book. Les
Id go with the 338 Federal. Not only could you equal the on-game performance of the 358 for big critters at moderate range (225 grainers), you can load 180 gr bullets that have a good ballistic coefficient, for lighter game such as deer at ranges pushing 300 yards. Much more versatile IMO, and it is new and cool
I would lean toward the .358 and for just the opposite reasons of Tod. I think it would handle heavier bullets a little better. But really there is very little difference between these two rounds and I doubt you'd go wrong with either. What they do in the mid range is very effective. The .358 is a bit older but it has some style on it's side. Whichever you get the better deal on, go with.
Slooshark1
CGN frequent flyer
Out of a 16 1/2" barrel, which one will hold more energy though? Would I have more success with heavier bullets or lighter bullets out of the short barrel? I'm thinking the slightly larger bore of the .358 might allow for better powder burning but maybe not. What do you think?
sigh ..... Looks like I'll have to go with the 358W then.BIGREDD said:
It's the same argument as the 338/06 vs the 35Whelen. Both are great calibers with lots of bullet selection either way. Practically speaking there is very little diff between the two.
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I have no experience with the .338-08 but I would love to get my hands on one. I'm not a big fan of recoil so this cartridge sounds like a good way to send some heavier bullets at game with a lot less recoil than the .338WM.
I see Epps has a few new S/S T3 in .338 Fed. Might be a nice after xmas gift for me once the GF finally graduates and gets working again..........
I see Epps has a few new S/S T3 in .338 Fed. Might be a nice after xmas gift for me once the GF finally graduates and gets working again..........
beretta boy
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- Orillia, Ontario
I'd stick with the tried and true .358 ....
The 338-08 is about a "half-way" approach between the .308 and .358
So what's the point ???
The 338-08 is about a "half-way" approach between the .308 and .358
So what's the point ???
The 358 is a little TOO slow IMHO. You don't NEED 400 yard trajectories, but the 358 is more like the 30-30. MAYBE 200 yards, less if you're shooting big critters.
Comparing 225's to 225's, the 338 is just as fast (both around 2500 fps), with a better BC & SD to extend the range a bit. To compare apples to apples, you have to compare bullets of similar SD's, to really the comparison has to be between the 225 grain in the 338 (at around 2500fps) and the 250 grain in the 358 (at 2300 fps). Then it's really no contest, with the 338 having the velocity and trajectory advantage, and a slight trajectory advantage which grows as the range increases.
I don't know what it is or understand it, but the same is true between the Whelen and the 338-06. Using the same parent case and the same 225gr bullet weght, the 338-06 has a higher MV than its .358 sibling. This is true according to all the load manuals that I have that list both calibers (several of them). Hell, this phenomena is true even of 250 grainers. See http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/33806.php and http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/35whel.php
So. IMHO, the 358 is like a 30-30 on steroids. Similar trajectory and range, but packing moose- and elk-smashing power. The 338 federal carries virtually the same power, but to a slightly farther range. The extra 200 fps or so buys you 50 to 100 extra yards when sighted for an 8" MPBR.
But at the end, the differences are mostly acedemic. The chioce would really boil down to which ever you could find chambered in the rifle you want.
Comparing 225's to 225's, the 338 is just as fast (both around 2500 fps), with a better BC & SD to extend the range a bit. To compare apples to apples, you have to compare bullets of similar SD's, to really the comparison has to be between the 225 grain in the 338 (at around 2500fps) and the 250 grain in the 358 (at 2300 fps). Then it's really no contest, with the 338 having the velocity and trajectory advantage, and a slight trajectory advantage which grows as the range increases.
I don't know what it is or understand it, but the same is true between the Whelen and the 338-06. Using the same parent case and the same 225gr bullet weght, the 338-06 has a higher MV than its .358 sibling. This is true according to all the load manuals that I have that list both calibers (several of them). Hell, this phenomena is true even of 250 grainers. See http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/33806.php and http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/35whel.php
So. IMHO, the 358 is like a 30-30 on steroids. Similar trajectory and range, but packing moose- and elk-smashing power. The 338 federal carries virtually the same power, but to a slightly farther range. The extra 200 fps or so buys you 50 to 100 extra yards when sighted for an 8" MPBR.
But at the end, the differences are mostly acedemic. The chioce would really boil down to which ever you could find chambered in the rifle you want.
SD has nothing to do with the ballistics of an in-flight bullet so it is valid to compare bullets of equal weight in different calibers. If the formulas for calculating time-of-flight and bullet speed at various ranges are looked at, the only variables used are muzzle velocity and ballistic coefficient.
Generally speaking, bullets with higher SD's will penetrate the target better but that happens after the flight.
As for the .338-06 vs the .35 Whelen(and the .338 Fed vs the .358 Win) debate, if all factors are equal, bullets fron a .35/.358 will have a higher muzzle velocity than those from a .338. It's all about bullet base area and expansion ratios.
By 'all things been equal', I mean barrel length, bullet weight, pressures, case capacity, using optimal powders, good quality rifles.
As for the manuals showing the .35 Whelen to be slower, a lot of the data was developed for older rifles that may or may not be safe at modern pressures. My personnal favorite is the current Speer manual description of the .338-06 vs the .35 Whelen.
Because BC has no effect on muzzle velocity, I checked some Nosler partition in 225 and 250 gr in and found that the .338 have sightly higher BC's than the same weights in .358.
So the upshot would probably be nearly equal trajectories because the .338 has marginally sleeker bullets while the .358 bullets start out marginally faster.
But the .358 makes a biiger hole.
Generally speaking, bullets with higher SD's will penetrate the target better but that happens after the flight.
As for the .338-06 vs the .35 Whelen(and the .338 Fed vs the .358 Win) debate, if all factors are equal, bullets fron a .35/.358 will have a higher muzzle velocity than those from a .338. It's all about bullet base area and expansion ratios.
By 'all things been equal', I mean barrel length, bullet weight, pressures, case capacity, using optimal powders, good quality rifles.
As for the manuals showing the .35 Whelen to be slower, a lot of the data was developed for older rifles that may or may not be safe at modern pressures. My personnal favorite is the current Speer manual description of the .338-06 vs the .35 Whelen.
Because BC has no effect on muzzle velocity, I checked some Nosler partition in 225 and 250 gr in and found that the .338 have sightly higher BC's than the same weights in .358.
So the upshot would probably be nearly equal trajectories because the .338 has marginally sleeker bullets while the .358 bullets start out marginally faster.
But the .358 makes a biiger hole.
With regards to the barrel length effect. I have a 35 whellen that was made for me on a Belgium made Browning. The barrel was installed at 24", test fired then cut to 22" and fired again. The average loss in muzzle velocity was only 10' per sec. That was with Remington factory loads with a 250 grain bullet. I'm not sure how this relates to your question except that my understanding is that wide mouth cases work better with fast burning powders and so the barrel length does not have as great an effect.
As to which one do I think you should buy? The 358, or better yet, a 35 Whellen. I have a Winchester big bore in 356 and am very happy with it in both the accuracy and performance on critters catagories. The 338-08 seems like the answer to an unasked question. But it's your oppinion that counts. Have fun.
As to which one do I think you should buy? The 358, or better yet, a 35 Whellen. I have a Winchester big bore in 356 and am very happy with it in both the accuracy and performance on critters catagories. The 338-08 seems like the answer to an unasked question. But it's your oppinion that counts. Have fun.
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prosper said:
HUh? 180 gr X's's come out of the 358 as fast as 180's come out of a 30-06.
(Rick on the site had data that put a 180 at 2900 FPS... Much more versitile than most seem to be giving credit.)
NOt at all like a 30-30... 200's come out over 2500fps out of a 20 inch barrel, and 250's at just over 2350 FPS in the same rifle. (250's are the same speed as a 150 gr 30-30... same barrel length...
Compare a 30-30 wound channel with a 358 (or 356 Win) wound channel, and you'll see that there is a HUGE difference in damage caused between the two rounds. I was actually suprised as to how much damage the 250 gr 35 cal did...
The REAL Discernable difference between the 338-08 and the 358 WIN is...
8mm Vs 9mm...
The 358 will work better with heavy bullets than the 338-08. 338 bullets for the most part are longer per given weight, and will eat up case capacity more than the 358 will in the puny cartridge...
