prosper said:
WHY would you wnat to shoot 180's out of a 358? They'd have a MISERABLE SD and poor penetration, as well as a terrible BC when compared to a 308 180. At 200 yards, the 358 180's is WAY behind the .308 180.
Let me guess... you've never owned a .358. Am I correct?
Furthermore, you've never shot ANYTHING with a .358 bullet of 180 grains. Correct again?
Let me get really crazy here for a minute and guess that you have never shot elk or moose; or if I'm wrong on that, you might have actually shot one or maybe two.
Am I close on that one?
Here's a thought: why is a 180 grain bullet out of a 30/06 considered to be quite the moose killer, but a 180 grain bullet - with a faster muzzle velocity - out of a .358 is just "MISERABLE"?
All other things being equal (difficult outside of computer reality, I know), increased barrel diameter means a more favourable expansion ratio, which in turn generally means more velocity for same weight bullet out of the same case volume burning the same amount of powder. This is the part where you say "So what does that mean"?
What it means is that a .358 Winchester, burning significantly less powder than a 30/06 in a smaller case, can move a 180 grain bullet as fast or faster than a 30/06 out of a shorter barrel. My wife's .358 in her BLR chronographs 2940 fps with a load right out of the book that shows no pressure signs as well. I invite you to get the same out of a 180 grain bullet in a 30/06 without pushing pressures up - and I guarantee you that you won't be doing it with somewhere around 45 grains of powder (exact load escapes me at the moment).
Now I know that, sometime in your young life, you read somewhere that the .358 Winchester is "just a brush cartridge" and only good for about 200 yards (which you kindly posted to remind us of that). But frankly, if you think a 180 grain bullet at 2900 fps (or a 200 grain bullet at 2750 fps, for that matter) isn't good for 300 - 400 yards, then I have to wonder what color the sky is in your world.
So we can get 30/06 velocities and beyond burning a lot less powder. THAT in turn means less recoil. Which my wife (who has probably shot a lot more elk and moose than you have or are likely to) appreciates. She doesn't think she needs a lot of recoil to make her think there's a lot of power at the other end. If 180 grain bullets do indeed perform "miserably" from a .358, that is indeed news to the critters we have used them on at various ranges out of several rifles. They all just kind of went "flop".
And, when the supply of now discontinued 180 grain Barnes-X dries up, I suspect the 200 grain Barnes will basically show itself to be more of the same.
And yes, the SD and BC of a .358 is generally worse than that of a .338 or .308 of the same weight. However, you will probably be disappointed to learn that in the real world a couple of inches of drop at 400 yards - particularly when shooting from field positions - is pretty hard to detect. And when you get exit holes on quartering shots on elk and moose, those "miserable" SD's just don't seem to make much sense.
You need to spend less time in the world of firearms/ballistics theory and more time out in the field hunting and shooting...
However, if you just can't resist the pull of the theoretical computer range, try this: run a 180 grain .358 bullet with a BC of .298 and a muzzle velocity of 2900 fps out to 400 yards and see what, if anything, it gives up in bullet drop and impact velocity to a 30/06 with the same weight bullet. Then do the same thing using a 200 grain .358 bullet with a BC of .346 and a muzzle velocity of 2750 fps. If you want to be really humbled, throw the .308 Winchester in there with the same weight bullets just for laughs.
When you're done, tell us what the fancy computer says the difference is between the two cartridges using the same weights of bullet at 400 yards - where very little game is actually shot in the first place.
