To take it a step further, same bullet weight to the same OAL the 358 will get more velocity; higher expansion ration, shorter bullet=more room for powder, and slower twist. These are the same reasons the 32 Special outruns the 30WCF.
.338 Federal vs. .358 Win
- Thread starter Mr. Friendly
- Start date
To take it a step further, same bullet weight to the same OAL the 358 will get more velocity; higher expansion ration, shorter bullet=more room for powder, and slower twist. These are the same reasons the 32 Special outruns the 30WCF.
I know it defies logic...but being the devil's advocate, do you have proof for your rebuttal?
Well I can tell you the 300gr 338 is 1.43inches, whereas the 310gr 358 pill is 1.352 inches... Which is nearly a 10th of an inch more powder space taken up by the 338, assuming they're loaded to the same length.
That was my understanding too. The only way the 338fed should outpace the 358win is with higher pressures, especially if the 338 bullet is longer than the 358 bullet.
- Location
- British Canuckistan
in reference to the ballistic coefficient (in general), at what point should you consider a bullet unusable?
The 300g XTP referred in the .450 Bushmaster thread has a BC of only .200.
The 300g XTP referred in the .450 Bushmaster thread has a BC of only .200.
A bullet is never unuseable per say. Bad BCs will just cause it to lose velocity faster, which in turn limits maximum effective range. In general flat nose bullets have terrible BCs, but they're still plenty useful when used right - the 30-30 has taken a crap ton of game with poor bc bullets. A lot of the bullets used in 40 caliber+ big game rifles too, they are mostly flat or round nose with very little concern for BC because they're meant for close in work not 300yd shots.
A Hornady 55gr. 224cal fmj only has a BC of .243. I bet that's not too far off what military 556 nato is like too, and they use that out to what 300-400yds?
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- Location
- In the shadows of the Rockies
About 100 fps higher maximum muzzle speed from my .416 Rem. Mag. with 300gr bullets compared to my .458 Lott. Same barrel lengths and twists. Probably due mostly to the venturi effect, expanding gas speed increases through the 416 neck to increase bullet speed. Should be the same for the 338 Federal vs. 358 Winchester, more venturi effect with the 338 so 338 muzzle speed should be higher.
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Potato boy
Regular
- Location
- North of the mountain
At distance the 338 federal is superior, with lever revolution powder I can launch a 215 grain bullet at 2700 ft./S. At that velocity the drop is about equal to a 308 shooting 168, but retained energy is much higher, in the end at 3:38 federal is more versatile. The 358 Winchester however is a very capable round and will do just fine for most hunting inside 300 yards. Inside 300yards you won't tell the difference between the two. The 338 federal seems to have more factory ammo available due to its popularity in the AR platform down south, if you do not reload,this may be a consideration
- Location
- In the shadows of the Rockies
338 advantage over the 358 is the availability of the 338 265gr AB LR bullet, 0.732 ballistic coefficient. High downrange energy levels. Comparable 35 caliber hunting bullet would be the 250gr NP at 0.446 b.c. In a 338 Federal the 265gr AB LR could probably be launched at around 2200 to 2300 fps.
Slamfire, are you stoned ?
what does the above 338 win mag, have to do with either, the 338 federal or 358 win,
what does the above 338 win mag, have to do with either, the 338 federal or 358 win,
- Location
- Southern Vancouver Island
338 caliber 265gr AB LR is a rather long bullet. Depending on magazine and/or throat length OAL could be restrictive to limit case capacity.
A long action defeats the purpose of the .308 case... there are a lot of better options.
Not everybody wants to shoot a potatoe launcher.
Typical short actions. 338 Federal / 265gr AB LR vs. 358 Win / 250gr NP. The 338 Federal has a 400 ft-lb energy advantage at 300 yds because of the VLD bullet.
Assuming, of course, that you can drive it fast enough from a (crazy-azzed) tight twist barrel to maintain the B.C advantage at 300 yards... doubtful, without some specialized work and equipment.
Typical short actions. 338 Federal / 265gr AB LR vs. 358 Win / 250gr NP. The 338 Federal has a 400 ft-lb energy advantage at 300 yds because of the VLD bullet.
Still 1900+ftlbs @300yds for the 358. I don't really care if you've got more energy than that, it's not going to make the animal any deader... And the drop from 200 to 300 are pretty dang close too...
- Location
- In the shadows of the Rockies
265gr AB LR bullet stability is comfy with the 338 Federal 1:10 twist. Higher impact energy makes it less likely for the animal to go very far, like buggering off into the thickets. And should have better penetration with the 338.
Hay slamfire, I see you are online, can you post up the 338 225 gr partion, I like to see how similar construction bullets compare, I am picking there's not much, between them,
Bc is very close, I didn't see any Nosler data for anything heavier than 225gr in .338 cal.
Bc is very close, I didn't see any Nosler data for anything heavier than 225gr in .338 cal.
- Location
- In the shadows of the Rockies
Nosler lists the 338 Federal / 225gr NP at 2428 fps maximum from a 24" barrel. Here's the ballistics at 2400 fps MV. There's also the 225gr AB that has a b.c. of 0.550.
Lots of excellent 338 bullets to choose from. I'm going with the 265gr AB LR (in my 338 WM).
Lots of excellent 338 bullets to choose from. I'm going with the 265gr AB LR (in my 338 WM).
